Affordable and light weight 4x5

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rayonline_nz

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Hi all, I have heard about the Intrepid camera. I am looking for something that is lightweight ie 1.5kg or 3lbs. With respect to the other ones how much are they going for? I know they maybe a used camera.

Any ones that you recommend it is mainly to be used for landscapes and cityscapes.


Thanks.
 

tezzasmall

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I heard about the Intrepid camera too, after the Kickstarter project had finished! :sad:

I note the price now and it is still reasonable, but imagine being one of the first to have got one for only £99!?!?!?!

If only I could turn back time...

Other than that, I think you may find that 'affordable' and '4x5' rarely go together. :sad:

Terry S
 

Alan9940

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Your choice of camera, beside the weight range you've specified, is going to depend on what focal length lenses you anticipate using and what movements you'd like to have on the camera. Well...and, also, how much money you'd like to spend. For example, a Graflex Crown Graphic is very reasonably priced on the used market, but you'll have very limited camera movements and you won't have the option of using long lenses. One of. The wooden folders--like a Wista DX, for example--willl provide an ample set of movements, but you'll still be limited on the longer focal length lenses. If you're going to do cityscapes, you may want a camera with interchangeable bellows allowing you to use a bag bellows for a wider range of camera movements with short focal length lenses. As you can see, many variables to consider...
 

Dan Fromm

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Alan, re long lenses on a 4x5 Crown Graphic. The camera's maximum extension is 12.5" (= 317 mm). The longest original issue lens for the camera was the 15"/5.6 (381 mm) TeleOptar/TeleRaptar and telephoto lenses up to around 400 mm have been used on it.

Limited? Absolutely! Are the limitations limiting? That's for the OP to decide.
 

Pioneer

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Since my Intrepid arrived it has become my favorite 4x5 field camera. I can go as wide as 90mm with my Angulon but I obviously don't get a lot of movements. I think you can use a 65mm lens with a recessed lens board.

I think it has enough extension to focus a 300mm lens but I haven't tried to go that far yet.

It is very light and easy to set up.

If I need more movements or better features then I pull out my Cambo SC. Not as easy to pack (though certainly not impossible) and still light and easy to set up.
 

Alan9940

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Alan, re long lenses on a 4x5 Crown Graphic. The camera's maximum extension is 12.5" (= 317 mm). The longest original issue lens for the camera was the 15"/5.6 (381 mm) TeleOptar/TeleRaptar and telephoto lenses up to around 400 mm have been used on it.

Limited? Absolutely! Are the limitations limiting? That's for the OP to decide.

Hi Dan,

Yes, I realize telephoto style lenses can be used on shorter bellows/bed extension cameras, but IMO most certainly wouldn't qualify as lightweight which the OP had as a qualification. As a matter of fact, most any plasmat wouldn't fall into the lightweight category either; best to stick with Nikkor-M series, etc. But, I totally agree that the OP needs to decide on what's needed. I was simply trying to offer some "food for thought."
 

Alan Gales

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The Intrepid is inexpensive new. I've never handled one but I have read good things. I've also seen basic used Shen Hao's go for as low as $700 on Ebay. Shen Hao makes several models.

If you don't mind doubling your weight requirement to six pounds there are entry level used Cambo/Calumet monorails for $200 or less. They use friction movements instead of geared movements which saves a lot of weight. You might look at Toyo too. Even "light weight" monorails are bulky. You can break them down for backpacking. Of course this requires just a bit more setup time.
 

Ko.Fe.

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What is the point in the light 4x5 if you are going to have it on the tripod and here is no tricks around it? You must have tripod for camera like Intrepid and they must be heavy to withstand the wind. Sure where are some carbon junk for sissies, but you will need bags of sand to stabilize it. If you want it handheld and light where are Graflex. Working ones with lens and shutter are worth of 200$.
 

Pioneer

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What is the point in the light 4x5 if you are going to have it on the tripod and here is no tricks around it? You must have tripod for camera like Intrepid and they must be heavy to withstand the wind. Sure where are some carbon junk for sissies, but you will need bags of sand to stabilize it. If you want it handheld and light where are Graflex. Working ones with lens and shutter are worth of 200$.
I carry a very light Slik Tripod which works very well with the Intrepid. If needed I have a short elastic cord which I use to hang my backpack on. Usually that is enough but, if more is needed, I can throw a few rocks in the backpack as you indicated. As I am not really in the habit of keeping rocks in my backpack after I have made my photograph then the packing weight is kept very low.

I love the Crown Graphic as well but it is heavier (about 6 pounds) and does not have anywhere near the movements the Intrepid provides.

If you do not intend to use tilt or swing then the Wanderlust Travelwide is probably the lightest little 4x5 camera you can find. I'm not too sure how many are available, but this is another amazing little camera, one that is truly handholdable.
 

btaylor

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The Intrepid got a very good write-up by Randy Moe over at the Large Format Forum. Worth reading. It's near impossible to hit that price point with even a well used wooden folder. I have a soft spot for the Crown Graphic (I like hiking with one on a monopod, very quick to set up), but if you need any significant movements you're out of luck.
 

locutus

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One thing to keep in mind with 'low cost largeformat' the price of consumables will remain high.... it starts at ~60 euro cents a sheet for Fomapan100 (not a great choice for LF with its reciprocity failure) Ilford comes out at ~1.4 Euros a sheet and then colour explodes from 4 to 7 euros a shot.

And that's not counting processing, which for BW is cheap but with colour will add up quick.
 
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Lightweight is my middle name. I work on two continents. My U.S. kit is designed to be carried long distances over rough terrain; My European kit gets backpacked around cities and bicycled around my home town of Vienna. I need and use a lot of camera movements in my work, especially front rise and shift in the cities. I need a full-featured lightweight camera and lightweight lenses that cover well enough to include things like church spires with the camera leveled and using front rise and a 90mm lens. Maybe my thoughts will help you put together a kit that suits you.

The lightest camera I have is a Horseman Woodman, weighing in at 3.2 lbs (1.45 kg). It is nice to carry, but is not the most precision camera I've used and the bellows have a tendency to pick up pinholes. It has the advantage of allowing Technika boards to be mounted upside-down, thereby positioning the off-center hole above center and giving you a bit more effective front rise; quite useful when shooting in cities. Otherwise, one has to point the camera up and tilt the standards back to level and parallel to get more effective front rise. Back tilt on the camera is strangely limited by the hardware, but is normally adequate.

My current favorite for city work is a Wista SW with a wide-angle bellows. The SW is a DX with interchangeable bellows. The wide-angle bellows is half pleated, half bag and is simply a joy to use when lots of front rise coupled with shift (or even combined with tilts/swings). I can use lenses up through 210mm with it (the long bellows goes up to 300mm). I can easily vignette my 90mm f/8 Super Angulon without straining anything. With a DX (which I also have), I would have to crimp the bellows to as much coverage. The downside of the SW is that it's rosewood and a bit heavier. And it's rarer. I got lucky finding mine with both sets of bellows. I guess my point is that if you plan to do a lot of architectural/cityscape work that requires a lot of movements, you'll likely want something that will offer you adequate movements with short lenses like a 90mm, so you may be willing to compromise weight a bit.

For backpacking/hiking in the States, I carry a Wista DX. When using lots of movements, I'll often have to crimp the bellows (as noted above), but the cherrywood DX is just under 4 lbs (1.8 kg) while my rosewood SW is about 4.5 lbs. Besides, my SW lives in Europe (with my Woodman) and my DXs live in the States. I use 90mm and 75mm lenses on recessed boards and a 300mm (Nikkor M) on a top-hat board with both the DX and SW. Advantage of the DX is that it folds up with a small lens attached

So much for lightweight cameras I own. Other cameras that I would look at if I were acquiring another would be the lightweight Shen Hao PTB, the Chamonix cameras (several interesting models), the Toyo CF45 (carbon fiber) and, of course, the Intrepid. This latter looks to be a great value; lots of capability for little cash, but I've never handled one. If there are no stability or positioning problems, it is certainly the cheapest camera new.

As for price: once you have some parameters of what you want in terms of weight and movements, you'll see that there are a number of models that would fit the bill (those I've mentioned and maybe more). Then, you need to keep checking the used market till you find the deal you want. A new Wista DX goes for upwards of $1,200, but I've picked up two used in good condition for less that half of that. My Woodman was only $400. There are a lot of vendors from Japan that list cameras on eBay and elsewhere for fairly high prices, but better deals turn up regularly; you just have to keep looking.

My opinion on tripods: A lightweight camera doesn't need a monster tripod. And, if you're carrying your kit a long way over rough terrain, a lightweight tripod is a blessing. I carry a Manfrotto 3205 tripod coupled with a 3025 3-way head (it has only knobs, no long handles) in the field. I have two of these set-ups, one in the States and one in Europe (so I don't have to carry my tripod on the plane so often). It straps easily on my lumbar pack and fits in a regular-size suitcase. I might carry a carbon-fiber tripod if I could afford one. I have heavier wooden tripods for heavier cameras, but use them only rarely. The 3205 is sturdy enough that I have no qualms about using a 300mm lens on my DX or SW with it. When the wind comes up, I hang something heavy on it; my film pouch, my camera bag or the nylon bucket (designed for backpackers to carry water in) I carry in my pack, filled with rocks or sand. That does the job just fine.

Lenses: There are lots of lightweight lenses. usually you trade maximum aperture and some coverage for lighter weight. A few of my favorites: Fujinon A series lenses in 180mm and 240mm focal lengths, the Nikkor M series 300mm (the 200mm would be nice, but is rare and expensive on the used market), the Fujinon C series in 300mm is also great. 210mm Plasmats, et al., are too big and heavy for me, I like the aforementioned Fuji A 180mm or the 203mm Ektar in this range. A 210mm G-Claron would be fine here as well. I've got a 210mm Fujinon L that is okay, but a bit large, if not as bulk as the Plasmats. However, the 135mm Plasmats are small enough to be really usable; Rodenstock, Schneider, Fujinon and Nikkor all have offerings in this length; the Fuji 125mm lenses are also good in this range if you don't need a lot of coverage. The coverage squeeze comes with the shorter lenses. I carry a Schneider Super Angulon 90mm f/8 (the larger, heavier f/5.6 is just too big for me), but if I were looking for my first 90mm, I'd look for the Nikkor SW 90mm f/8 for its larger coverage. There are tons more, but this will help you get started.

Filters: For really lightweight trekking/backpacking I carry only lenses that can take small filters. I have a 100mm Wide-Field Ektar that takes the place of my 90mm SA when weight is a priority. That and the Fuji A 180mm and 240mm gives me a 3-lens kit that is really light. All these lenses use or have step-down rings that take 52mm filters, so my filter kit can be really small as well. Normally, though, I'll carry the 90mm that takes 67mm filters and then an extra step-down ring from 67mm-52mm. My city lens kit is 90mm SA, 135mm Wide Field Ektar (bigger than a Plasmat but more coverage for the front rise I use a lot), Fujinon 180mm and 240mm. My hiking kit in the States is similar: 90mm SA, 135mm Plasmat (smaller and I use fewer movements with landscapes), 203mm Ektar and 300mm Nikkor M (on the top-hat board).

Sorry this got so long, but I hope it helps,

Doremus
 

grahamp

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My Wista DX with a 150mm lens comes in at 4 lbs 14 oz. By comparison my all metal MPP VII is 7 lbs 4oz with the same lens. Four 4x5 film holders adds 1 1/2 lbs. I can leave that lens in both of them when folded. The Wista is my field camera, while the MPP is a niche tool - long bellows, viable hand held or on a monopod (I have it for nostalgia reasons as much as anything - it is almost exactly the same age as I, and was 'born' only a few miles from me).

The Intrepid is lighter, but it is not designed to keep the lens mounted and is limited in rear movements (something that seems to have been addressed in the upcoming 8x10 version). I seriously doubt that you would find a comparable new camera for less.

Don't under-estimate the value of lighter weights. Unless you are working from or close to a vehicle, or have an able assistant, you have to carry it. And unpack, setup, expose, and repack. I find that my creativity drops if I get too tired.

The OP is in New Zealand. I don't know what the local used market is for cameras, but it may be that one would have to buy from Japan, China, Australia or the US. So buying from the UK is probably not an obstacle.

Then there is the question of processing the film, and possibly enlarging it. The camera is a fixed cost. It is the consumables and supporting equipment that runs up the overall cost.
 

ChuckP

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Early generation light weights include the Ikea/Anba/Nagaoka cameras. I don't have any detailed specifications but they are lighter than Wista DX type cameras. And not as sturdy.
 

adelorenzo

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Out of curiosity I weighed my Super Speed Graphic which has been stripped of all rangefinder, flash and other parts. 1.95 kg for a rugged and inexpensive field camera with front movements.

I've handled a friend's Intrepid and I was quite impressed.

I have a Mercury camera coming from the Kickstarter which promises to be a fairly lightweight and compact 4x5, albeit without movements.
 

Ian Grant

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Like many others I'd suggest a Wista 45DX or similar, I've had mine about 30 years great for back-packing. A Super Graphic is another good option it has enough movements for my landscape work and is easy to use hand held. I'd steer away from Crown/Speed Graphics due to the very limited movements, I do use them on occasions but not for very day use, there have been times when I've not been able to get the shots I really wanted due to the poor movements.

Ian
 

esearing

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Ikeda Anba, and Nagaoka are very similar designs and weigh in at just over 3lbs. They do lock down tightly despite what others say. Their one drawback is the tiny knobs for people with big hands. Bellows draw 65mm to 300mm. The Chamonix line has slightly more bellows and bigger knobs.
 

Kilgallb

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I have a TOYO 45CF which seems like a feather after the Calumet 24" monorail. I have used it on a heavy tripod and a light weight. On windy days (most times in Alberta) you need to weigh even a heavy tripod down with a sack of stones. My camera fell on a mountainside in the wind. I just turned to get a lens and wham, down it went. After that I put down the stones first then add camera and lens.
 

Drew Bedo

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Hi all, I have heard about the Intrepid camera. I am looking for something that is lightweight ie 1.5kg or 3lbs. With respect to the other ones how much are they going for? I know they maybe a used camera.

Any ones that you recommend it is mainly to be used for landscapes and cityscapes.


Thanks.
Hi all, I have heard about the Intrepid camera. I am looking for something that is lightweight ie 1.5kg or 3lbs. With respect to the other ones how much are they going for? I know they maybe a used camera.

Any ones that you recommend it is mainly to be used for landscapes and cityscapes.


Thanks.

Haven't read all of this thread so this may be redundant:

What about a TravelWide? Ultra-light. Not costly. Infinity for landscape. Pre-focus for street work.
 

drewaltizer

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I have a Canham DLC folding metal camera which weighs 4lb 11oz, folds to a very compact size and which I carry very comfortably in a smallish backpack with a couple of lenses and accessories, film etc.
 

jscott

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After reading all the glowing reviews I bought a Travelwide in clean condition some time ago for much more than the original price. Took two OK photos.
Always fought with the helical focus. Just didn't want to turn. Tried waxing, lubrication, then it froze up completely. Grrrrrrrr.

Threw the whole thing in the trash. Total fail. Waste of money. Bleh. Most expensive photography ever!
 

Paul Howell

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If light is good, but compact is not an issue, may be somewhat hard to find, New View or Brand. Post WWII, made in LA, cast the melted scrap Aluminum from all the surplus fighter and bombers. Has good movement, rotating back, double rail system, has a grip to carry or even hand hold, I have seen ads from the time that shows an attached rangefinder. Takes Speed Graphic lens boards. I use mine with a 127mm 152m and 210 lens kit, there were rail extensions for longer lens. Only issue is that does fold flat like a true field camera.
 

David A. Goldfarb

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look for a calumet/gowland pocket view.
https://www.petergowland.com/gowlandflex-cameras
well worth the effort of finding one.

i believe vaughn and david goldfarb both use ( used?) one,
maybe they will chime in with their experiences...

I sold off my 4x5" Gowland Pocket View some years ago, but I still have the 8x10". It was super light and compact, but a bit fiddly to set up, so now when I want to go small, I use a 2x3" Technika three-lens kit, or use my 4x5" Technika with one or two lightweight lenses. The 4x5" Gowland was particularly handy to carry with another camera like a medium format folder for travel or with my birding kit for landscape/macro opportunities while waiting for the birds.

If I were to get another lightweight 4x5" camera today, I think I'd look for an Ikeda Anba or maybe Chamonix (careful if you shop used--the early 4x5" Chamonix 45N-1 had a groundglass registration issue, resolved by the time they issued the 45N-2, but it's generally a very well designed camera and reasonably priced).

With the winds and humidity in Hawai'i, though, a heavier metal camera is more useful than an ultralight wooden camera, so I'm not really shopping for any new cameras.
 
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