Advice on conducting an experiment comparing an assortment of b&w developers

[koraks]

but since I already own a densitometer all I need to get is a sensitometer???

A step wedge (e.g. Stouffer T3110) and an enlarger will do, too. Tape the wedge to the underside of a glass plate, place some film underneath the glass in contact with the step wedge, expose, develop and measure the result.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I guess I'm doing more of artistic research

An important clarification. Artistic experimentation is very different from conducting an experiment that will "test the differences" between all the chosen developers, as seemed to be implied in your original post. Very different and certainly highly beneficial in terms of figuring out where you want your photographic practice to go.

I did just read in the "cookbook" how there is very little differences in developers if you balance out dilution and such to achieve the result you're looking for

Can you point out where this appears in the book? I'm not sure I'm following...

 

[Sidd]

One of the most fruitful and current discussions recommendable to any novice like me. Thank you all.

 

[markbau]

A step wedge (e.g. Stouffer T3110) and an enlarger will do, too. Tape the wedge to the underside of a glass plate, place some film underneath the glass in contact with the step wedge, expose, develop and measure the result.

I'm not so sure. If you want to take up a new hobby of densitometry/sensitometry, go for it, but I've never really understood what we learn when we expose film in a way nothing like how we photograph. Sure you'll be able to produce a bunch of curves, but I photograph, mainly, in sunlight, which is quite a bit different to the light my enlarger puts out. One of the most liberating things I've ever done is throwing "Beyond the Zone System" into a fire.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

I'm not so sure. If you want to take up a new hobby of densitometry/sensitometry, go for it, but I've never really understood what we learn when we expose film in a way nothing like how we photograph. Sure you'll be able to produce a bunch of curves, but I photograph, mainly, in sunlight, which is quite a bit different to the light my enlarger puts out. One of the most liberating things I've ever done is throwing "Beyond the Zone System" into a fire.

Bravo!

 

[Craig]

I've never really understood what we learn when we expose film in a way nothing like how we photograph. Sure you'll be able to produce a bunch of curves, but I photograph, mainly, in sunlight, which is quite a bit different to the light my enlarger puts out.

I learned the developing time for the way I work that gives a contrast index that is appropriate for the way I print. If you go through the exercise it can give a lot of useful information for when you are out photographing whatever it is you take pictures of.

For instance, I found that I was underdeveloping my film, if I used the 1:1 times from the datasheet it gave negatives that work well for me. I could have simply done a shotgun approach and tried all sorts of different exposure times and developing times and agitation methods and hoped that one of the stabs in the dark might hit something. Instead I had a lot of data in 3 sheets of film and was able to narrow down exposure and development very quickly. It gave very focused information ( pardon the pun)!

 

[markbau]

I learned the developing time for the way I work that gives a contrast index that is appropriate for the way I print. If you go through the exercise it can give a lot of useful information for when you are out photographing whatever it is you take pictures of.

For instance, I found that I was underdeveloping my film, if I used the 1:1 times from the datasheet it gave negatives that work well for me. I could have simply done a shotgun approach and tried all sorts of different exposure times and developing times and agitation methods and hoped that one of the stabs in the dark might hit something. Instead I had a lot of data in 3 sheets of film and was able to narrow down exposure and development very quickly. It gave very focused information ( pardon the pun)!

You may know of a general rule of thumb espoused by many over the years that basically says give your film one stop more exposure than box speed and develop for 10% - 20% less than the recommended. I'm just curious, in the results of your tests, how different were the EI and development time from the manufacturers recommendations?

 

[Craig]

I only tested 2 films, Delta 100 and HP5 in replentished Xtol, processed in a Jobo. Replentished Xtol is known to have a small speed loss, about 1/3 of a stop.

For Delta 100, it ended up being about box speed ( EI 80) and the Kodak time for replenished, full strength developer of 8:30.

For HP5, I ended up at box speed, but 9:30, which is about a 1 stop push based on the Kodak times in the Xtol sheet for rotary processing. That got me to the same contrast index as Delta 100.

For the most part, if a rotary processing time isn't given, I use box speed and the Xtol 1:1 times for the replenished and that comes out close.

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

One of the most liberating things I've ever done is throwing "Beyond the Zone System" into a fire.

I donated my copy to the charity shop.

 

[Molte]

I realise that this is an older thread, but I just did a tiny portion of what the OP is dreaming of.

I wanted to find my own EI for a couple of films that I was considering for my current travels i Spain & Portugal. I am not especially concerned with grain, but want negatives that are not too dense.

My conclusion:

I selected FP4+ that I am exposing at EI 64 using a Mamiya 6 with s 50mm lens and a yellow filter. So far I am using mostly Sunny 16, but once in a while I use Mylightmeter on my iPhone. I will develop in Thornton 2 bath when I get home. I keep an empty box of Delta 3200 with the film for the possibility of having to argue for hand inspection if airport security wants to send my film through the armadillo film fryer. Copenhagen airport staff is nice and understanding.

My reflections (in the evening after taking as much as 8-10 pictures during the day):

1. I made many silly mistakes and spent a lot of time on maybe not learning so much new that I didn’t already know. Having retired recently, I developed some 60+ films of various types of film in mostly Thornton developer. These look mostly good, although the Rollei Superpan 200 look thin. I haven’t had time to print but a few. So I am ok with that developer. I also did some erratic stand development with Rodinal and DD-X. I started a thread here and found/learned very valuable things from members here. Thank you for that.

2. I have watched the ‘Naked Photographer’s testing and found this very valuable. I always end up thinking that almost all films are good and that I should just pick one and stick with it. Barry Schwartz has written a whole book on the paradox of choice and why more is less.

But I live in Scandinavia and in winter I might often need a tripod if I only had EI 64. With HP5+ I could have EI 200 and with Delta 3200 I could have EI 800. The cost of film is not irrelevant, and Kentmere films are maybe as good as FP/HP if exposed properly …. it is a paradox of choice.

3. The same goes for the developer. In the past I have used D-76 1:1 a lot. This is metol and sulfite (+) like in D-23 and Thornton/Stoeckler. I have a couple of packages of XT-3 for 1 liter solution and many here seem to find almost equivalent to D-76. I don’t expose many films and one package of XT-3 could do 4 rolls if using it 1:1. I also have Rodinal. And I could refrain from dumping the DD-X as I have Delta 3200 in the freezer.

For now, I will stick with FP4+ and the Thornton developer and fokus on the interesting images in front of me as well as my exposure. Sunny 16 is easier than I remember, so no auto on the Mamiya. It is joyful slow contemplative photography.

And then, afterwards, I need to decide what to do with the negatives.

Also, I would like to do a quick re-read of the ‘Beyond’ book. It has been many years; I recall something about the 18% card actually not being in the ‘middle’, a simple system for determining exposure and how contrasty a scene is (using an incident meter), how ‘0.1 above F&B’ is variable and how many zones there is in a print. It was also very technical and maybe the deviation-errors in my processes eliminate the potential benefits of any of the finer details in that book.