Advice on buying my first medium format film camera

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logan2z

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I've been shooting exclusively on 35mm film but have been thinking about adding a medium format camera for use in landscape photography. I've done some research and have a short list of possible cameras, but I'm undecided on the aspect ratio that I should go with.

I have a soft spot for Hasselblads as my father used one when I was growing up so I've been leaning in the direction of a 501CM. Of course this is one of the more expensive options and I'm not sure how I'll get on with the square format considering I'm used to framing using the 3:2 ratio. Another option is the Fuji 6x9. I'm comfortable with the aspect ratio and currently use a Leica M so rangefinder focusing is familiar to me. I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea of a fixed lens but I understand it is of high quality. The final option I've been considering is something like the Mamiya 645. It's pretty close to the aspect ratio I'm used to and it seems like it's fairly compact for a MF camera. My one hesitation there is that I'm wondering if it's worth going to the smallest size of MF film - perhaps it isn't a significant enough bump in size.

I realize I'm kind of rambling a bit here but thought that perhaps others familiar with these cameras could weigh in on the pros/cons and help steer me in the right direction.
 

runswithsizzers

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logan2z

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Dan Daniel

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What focal lengths do you find yourself using in 35mm?

Have you either shot squares, or cropped to squares? Some people get on well with them, and others hate working in them. If the square intriques you but you aren't certain if a Hassy setup is a worthwhile gamble, a cheaper TLR is a nice way to play around. Take some existing images or negatives you have and crop to squares to see what you think.

I tend to get along with any ratio image (1:1. 2:3. 3:4, etc.), shoot to the format so to speak. Others can be very specific in what format(s) they want to be working in. Neither way is right or wrong, just what works for each of us.

All in all, be ready to go through two or three medium format cameras as you get used to what the increased tonality and resolution does, the slower style of working, the lower frame count per roll (it DOES make a difference!), etc.
 

John Galt

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Hasselblad 500 C/M with an A16 film magazine will give you sixteen 6 x 4.5 images.
 
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logan2z

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What focal lengths do you find yourself using in 35mm?

Have you either shot squares, or cropped to squares? Some people get on well with them, and others hate working in them. If the square intriques you but you aren't certain if a Hassy setup is a worthwhile gamble, a cheaper TLR is a nice way to play around. Take some existing images or negatives you have and crop to squares to see what you think.

I tend to get along with any ratio image (1:1. 2:3. 3:4, etc.), shoot to the format so to speak. Others can be very specific in what format(s) they want to be working in. Neither way is right or wrong, just what works for each of us.

All in all, be ready to go through two or three medium format cameras as you get used to what the increased tonality and resolution does, the slower style of working, the lower frame count per roll (it DOES make a difference!), etc.
I typically shoot with a 35mm lens on my Leica. I rarely crop at all and if I do it's not into square format.

I'm not sure that I will really have an issue framing in 6x6, its just something in the back of my mind. A TLR would certainly be a cheaper option for trying out 6x6 but I'm a bit concerned about the age of those cameras and am leaning towards something a little newer.
 

abruzzi

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Everyone comes into it with different preferences, but when I stepped into medium format, I looked it as “system cameras” and “on-off cameras”. By that I meant that if I buy a Hasselblad 500, Bronica ETR, Mamiya RB or Pentax 67, I could make the camera what I wanted by at least selecting the lens I wanted, and maybe finder, maybe backs. Coming from, primarily 35mm SLRs, that is what I wanted. However there is a lot to love in all the single configuration cameras. They are frequently lighter, simpler, and quicker.

I started with Pentax 67. I loved (and still love) it, but it’s size and weight we’re a bit more that I wanted most of the time. Then I got a Bronica ETRSi which I love, is very portable, and easy to shoot. It’s still my primary medium format camera. Since them I’ve tried a folder (Voigtlander Bessa) and a TLR (Yashica Mat 124G) and they’re fun, but I prefer system cameras, so I can pick a couple lenses before I go out on a walk.

I like the ergonomics of shooting the ETRSi with no grip and waist level finder, like the classic Hasselblad ergonomics. I’m considering stepping up from 6x4.5 to either 6x6 (Bronica SQ-Ai, or others) or maybe 6x7 (Bronica GS-1) in the same format. The rectangular formats are not frequently shot with waist level finders because it makes portrait move very difficult, but that’s a small issue to me since I rarely shoot portrait.
 

jim10219

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One of the big differences between using a MF camera vs. a 35mm camera is that with a MF camera, you can crop quite a bit and still get decent results. My point being, you don't have to worry about what format ratio the camera is because you can always crop the final print to however you like.

And you SHOULD crop. I often hear people say things like they don't crop and how proud they are that they can compose everything in camera. And that's okay, I guess. But more often than not, I find myself looking at a scene before where the best image would require an aspect ratio that my camera doesn't do. So what am I to do? Not shoot anything and go home? Shoot a bad image, just to have something? Or shoot an image that I know I can crop down into the image I want later on?
 

voceumana

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If you crop a 6x6 image to fit 4x5/8x10 format, you have essentially a 6x4.5 image area. So, unless you shoot square images, you aren't gaining any image area with 6x6 over 645.

But it is easier to use 6x6 and crop to a vertical format (than 645 or 6x7) with a waist level finder, as when rotated 90 degrees the image is now upside down in the WLF. It's not really an issue on a tripod--view camera users always work with an upside down image on the ground glass--but the ergonomics are a bit awkward on MF cameras. Of course the Mamiya 6x7 cameras have a revolving back to handle vertical format.

Much depends upon the type of work you do and personal preferences.

The Bronica SQ-Ai systems are very nice. Can be hand held if desired. Hasselblad was always out of my reach because of price.
 

Pieter12

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If you crop a 6x6 image to fit 4x5/8x10 format, you have essentially a 6x4.5 image area. So, unless you shoot square images, you aren't gaining any image area with 6x6 over 645.
Yes, if you don't want to print square--but you can crop that 6x6 as either a horizontal or a vertical print.
 

Luckless

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If you've never actually shot with a given style of camera, then it is very difficult to have a solid feel for whether or not you actually enjoy that style.

I rather like working in square format, having come into it after mainly using 2:3 format for many years, and it now makes up about 90% of my work. I sometimes crop down to something other than 1:1 after the fact, but tend to compose in the viewfinder. [Typically I leave a little extra buffer room and crop the initial 1:1 to a slightly smaller 1:1, but that is mostly due to shooting TLR handheld the majority of the time. It is better to have a little more than needed, and throw away a little extra, than it is to come up slightly short in the first place.]

As far as picking between 6x9 and 645 - How starved for film area are you feeling with your current rigs?

If you are 'mostly very happy' with what you're currently getting, but want a little more elbow room in a non-square format, then the 645 seems to make the most sense as a 'step up'.
- It isn't overly large and doesn't use excessive amounts of film per frame.

If you're feeling very constricted with your current negatives, and want far more room to work with, then the 6x9 is probably the better answer.


But in my [biased] view, keeping your eye out for a good but inexpensive TLR, such as a Rolleicord or similar, to use and get a feel for a different format and style of shooting is a 'very good place to start'.
- If you find you don't really enjoy the camera or what you're getting from the negative's format, then you can probably sell it for similar to what you paid and move on to another system.
 
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You sound like someone who isn't going to like square format. You said you like 3:2 and are familiar with it. Frankly, with landscape, you not going to like square format. IMO.

As far as choosing between a 645 vs. full MF, what do you intend to do with your shots? How big will your prints be?

I use a RB67 for my landscapes with a tripod. But it is heavy. I haven't tried something like a Fuji 6x9, but they and others like them are lighter than the RB and shoot sharp pictures according to others.

Good luck on whatever you choose.
 

John Koehrer

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A 6X6 folder would be inexpensive even with a rangefinder. It would be a way to see how you get along with a square negative.
Personally I never got along with the square.
 
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logan2z

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You sound like someone who isn't going to like square format. You said you like 3:2 and are familiar with it. Frankly, with landscape, you not going to like square format. IMO.

As far as choosing between a 645 vs. full MF, what do you intend to do with your shots? How big will your prints be?

I use a RB67 for my landscapes with a tripod. But it is heavy. I haven't tried something like a Fuji 6x9, but they and others like them are lighter than the RB and shoot sharp pictures according to others.

Good luck on whatever you choose.
The largest I typically print is 11x14, so not very big.

One of the things that attracts me to the Fuji 6x9 is it appears to be geared to hand holding and I would prefer not to drag around a tripod if I don't have to.

As to square format, two of my favorite photographers (Robert Adams, Lee Friedlander) shot square format quite a bit and they seemed to make it work pretty well :wink: Adams used the Fuji as well and even shot 35mm a little bit.

I suspect the posters who said I may go through a few cameras before settling on a format are probably right. It's likely something I'll only figure out once I start to actually use the cameras. .
 

Neil Grant

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...the camera's viewfinder is a fairly strong driver of composition (not withstanding an ability to crop). If it's square you may find it difficult to resist the urge to make a successful square composition - and that's very different from working with 3:2 ratio. I think you'd find 645 an easy transition from 35mm - and there's a big step up in image quality too. If you want to 'go square' a Mamiya TLR can be a good option - their simplicity makes them reliable.
 

darkosaric

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square format considering I'm used to framing using the 3:2 ratio

I have this problem - square is not my comfort zone. I have sold my Rolleiflex because of this...but (there is always but) - maybe one should go out of his comfort zone, and force himself to see thing differently. For that I have purchased Diana F and Diana F+ cameras, and I shoot from time to time this (for me) uncomfortable format.

What I want to say is - try 6x6, but not by spending a lot of money in to it. Some folder cameras like Agfa Isolette create great negative quality, and cost is around 30-50$. Or Holga/Diana if you are in to this kind of things. After using Leica and Nikon - from time to time I find it refreshing to use Diana cameras, no worries at all, just let myself go.
 

Kino

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I have this problem - square is not my comfort zone. I have sold my Rolleiflex because of this....

That's too bad because you could have gotten a 16 frame adapter kit for that camera to shoot 6x4.5.
 

Dan Daniel

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Rolleicord Va and Vb can be fit with a 6x4.5 adapter kit, 16 exposures. Using the sports finder with 6x4.5 mask is actually pretty easy. Or get the Vb and adda prism.... but coming from a Leica, framing accuracy isn't your thing all in all. Anyway, one suggestion to get both square and 6x4.5 in one outfit for under $500.

There are also 6x9 folders with 6x4.5 adapters. Moskva 5 comes to mind (a crap shoot but a wonderful camera when it works), just make certain the adapter is included.
 

markbau

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If I was getting into MF I'd go straight to 6x7. I started with 645, 6x6 cropped horizontal ends up the same long dimension as a 645. I was surprised at the image quality leap from 645 to 6x7.
 

Skeeterfx20

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I just went through this. I had limited experience with a Yashica. What I quickly found out the 6x6 negative wasn't cutting it. I was just to small for me. That meant any 645 camera and 6x6 was out. It's a personal thing so they may both work for you but I knew real quick I wanted bigger. I wasn't going to be happy unless I was at least at 6x7. A fixed lens camera would not work because I didn't want to be limited. This left Bronica and Mamiya in the running. I could have went for either one it I choose the Mamiya RB67. I would have went with the RZ but I just didn't want to spend that much.

When I developed my first E6 slides I knew that I made the right choice to go with 6x7. I would never have been happy with the 645 or 6x6. Now that's a personal thing.

The Mamiya RB 67- I'm just loving it. If your not use to using a hand meter it is pretty easy to learn. Anyways I'm in love with 6x7 and it hits all my needs.
 

rbultman

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My progression was M645, MAT-124G, RB67, Fuji GW690, Tower 6x6 folder, GA645, and Mamiya 7. I still have them all. I have built out each of the system cameras a bit. For the single-lens models, I have a collections of filters, mostly for B&W, and a lens hood. If I had to keep one, it would by the M645, specifically the 645 Pro TL. For me, it is the best compromise between size and weight, lens availability, and negative size. If I had to state a preference, it would have to be TTL over RF. I will say that I view single-lens RF as roughly being the same as TTL with respect to focusing - WYSIWYG. But, with TTL, things like depth of field preview and polarizer usage become possible or significantly easier to use.

Here are some notes on each:

M645 - Great system with lots of lenses, finders, backs, handles, winders, focusing screens, etc. It's easy to build the camera that you want, be it an SLR-type rig or TLR-ish WLF rig. The glass is great and using the system feels very natural to me. It isn't too heavy (for me). I love the versatility. I also love socket sets and other accessory-laden things.

MAT-124G - Fairly compact and light. It attracts attention because it is plenty weird relative to what most people 50 and under are used to. It's easy to focus and fun to shoot. I like the results from the lens, but would describe is as soft relative to most others that I mention here.

RB-67 - The beast. Similar to the M645 as a system camera in terms of lenses and accessories. I only have a WLF for this camera, so I can't speak to it's use with a different finder. I've carried this up Humpack mountain in VA as well as around the city. I like to use it for still-lifes in the house and don't venture out with it anymore due to its size and weight. For what I do with the negatives, it's not worth lugging around the weight Still, I enjoy the slowness and contemplation that the RB afforts. I've seen a guy shooting an outdoor concert with one, so don't let the weight scare you if you commit to it.

GW690 - Because 6X9. The negatives are just huge. The lens is sharp. But, you only get 8 shots per roll and there is just the one lens. Still, it is on the light side (relatively) and is fun to shoot. I've thought about doing contact prints with this, but haven't. Light meter required.

Tower 6x6 folder - I didn't pay much for it, and it is TINY!. And light. It's basically stamped out of sheet metal. It won't survive much of a drop, but you can easily fit it into a small pocket of a back pack. I'd put the lens in about the same class as the MAT, maybe a little softer. It's fun to shoot but has limited shutter speeds, so you have to choose your film for the conditions more carefully that you would for the M645. Shooting 400 speed film in bright sun, you can forget about shooting wide open (1.9 or 2.8, I forget). I took this on a international trip and it was fun to shoot. Oh, you will need to a light meter unless you have calibrated eyes, which I do not.

GA645 - Probably the most fun camera of the bunch. A really nice point and shoot with a build-in flash and auto focus. It has manual exposure plus full auto and aperture priority. The lens is awesome, but single focal length. This would be my second pick over the M645, mostly due to size and weight. This camera is much bigger than the Tower but seems like a toy compared to the RB. I've taken the most travel picture with this camera because of the size and weight. It's probably about the size of the GW690 but lighter, and 15 shots per roll (some have 16) vs 8.

Mamiya 7 - Easily the 'nicest' camera I own. This camera handles like a large point and shoot with manual focus. The lenses are awesome. The RF patch is bright making focusing easy. This camera wins over the RB simply due to weight but loses out to the M645 due to being RF instead of TTL focusing and the lower amount of bits and bobs available relative to the M645. Admittedly that is my limitation as a shooter (RF vs TTL) and I understand that others would make the opposite choice. I've been too chicken to take it on international trips (theft, breakage), plus 10 shots per roll means I spend more time reloading and less time shooting.

So, final words of wisdom (or lack thereof): Think less about the negative size and more about RF vs TTL as well as single-lens vs system-type cameras. Weight might also be a factor. If you are comfortable with RF, the Bronica RF645 or Mamiya 7 might be great for you as they offer a number of different fixed focal length lenses from which to choose and are among the lighter of the systems I have mentioned here. If TTL is more to your liking, then the Hassy or Mamiya M645 or RB/Z might fit the bill. If the need to change film types mid-roll is important to you, look to the Hassy, M645, RB67, or similar type systems from Bronica among others. The MAT and Tower have been fun cameras, but I probably wouldn't recommend them as first MF cameras.

Good luck with your decision!
 
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logan2z

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My progression was M645, MAT-124G, RB67, Fuji GW690, Tower 6x6 folder, GA645, and Mamiya 7. I still have them all. I have built out each of the system cameras a bit. For the single-lens models, I have a collections of filters, mostly for B&W, and a lens hood. If I had to keep one, it would by the M645, specifically the 645 Pro TL. For me, it is the best compromise between size and weight, lens availability, and negative size. If I had to state a preference, it would have to be TTL over RF. I will say that I view single-lens RF as roughly being the same as TTL with respect to focusing - WYSIWYG. But, with TTL, things like depth of field preview and polarizer usage become possible or significantly easier to use.

Here are some notes on each:

M645 - Great system with lots of lenses, finders, backs, handles, winders, focusing screens, etc. It's easy to build the camera that you want, be it an SLR-type rig or TLR-ish WLF rig. The glass is great and using the system feels very natural to me. It isn't too heavy (for me). I love the versatility. I also love socket sets and other accessory-laden things.

MAT-124G - Fairly compact and light. It attracts attention because it is plenty weird relative to what most people 50 and under are used to. It's easy to focus and fun to shoot. I like the results from the lens, but would describe is as soft relative to most others that I mention here.

RB-67 - The beast. Similar to the M645 as a system camera in terms of lenses and accessories. I only have a WLF for this camera, so I can't speak to it's use with a different finder. I've carried this up Humpack mountain in VA as well as around the city. I like to use it for still-lifes in the house and don't venture out with it anymore due to its size and weight. For what I do with the negatives, it's not worth lugging around the weight Still, I enjoy the slowness and contemplation that the RB afforts. I've seen a guy shooting an outdoor concert with one, so don't let the weight scare you if you commit to it.

GW690 - Because 6X9. The negatives are just huge. The lens is sharp. But, you only get 8 shots per roll and there is just the one lens. Still, it is on the light side (relatively) and is fun to shoot. I've thought about doing contact prints with this, but haven't. Light meter required.

Tower 6x6 folder - I didn't pay much for it, and it is TINY!. And light. It's basically stamped out of sheet metal. It won't survive much of a drop, but you can easily fit it into a small pocket of a back pack. I'd put the lens in about the same class as the MAT, maybe a little softer. It's fun to shoot but has limited shutter speeds, so you have to choose your film for the conditions more carefully that you would for the M645. Shooting 400 speed film in bright sun, you can forget about shooting wide open (1.9 or 2.8, I forget). I took this on a international trip and it was fun to shoot. Oh, you will need to a light meter unless you have calibrated eyes, which I do not.

GA645 - Probably the most fun camera of the bunch. A really nice point and shoot with a build-in flash and auto focus. It has manual exposure plus full auto and aperture priority. The lens is awesome, but single focal length. This would be my second pick over the M645, mostly due to size and weight. This camera is much bigger than the Tower but seems like a toy compared to the RB. I've taken the most travel picture with this camera because of the size and weight. It's probably about the size of the GW690 but lighter, and 15 shots per roll (some have 16) vs 8.

Mamiya 7 - Easily the 'nicest' camera I own. This camera handles like a large point and shoot with manual focus. The lenses are awesome. The RF patch is bright making focusing easy. This camera wins over the RB simply due to weight but loses out to the M645 due to being RF instead of TTL focusing and the lower amount of bits and bobs available relative to the M645. Admittedly that is my limitation as a shooter (RF vs TTL) and I understand that others would make the opposite choice. I've been too chicken to take it on international trips (theft, breakage), plus 10 shots per roll means I spend more time reloading and less time shooting.

So, final words of wisdom (or lack thereof): Think less about the negative size and more about RF vs TTL as well as single-lens vs system-type cameras. Weight might also be a factor. If you are comfortable with RF, the Bronica RF645 or Mamiya 7 might be great for you as they offer a number of different fixed focal length lenses from which to choose and are among the lighter of the systems I have mentioned here. If TTL is more to your liking, then the Hassy or Mamiya M645 or RB/Z might fit the bill. If the need to change film types mid-roll is important to you, look to the Hassy, M645, RB67, or similar type systems from Bronica among others. The MAT and Tower have been fun cameras, but I probably wouldn't recommend them as first MF cameras.

Good luck with your decision!
Fantastic summary, thanks so much! Much food for thought.
 

spijker

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I also looked at the RZ67 when about to switch to medium format. After a few times holding various MF camera's I came to the conclusion that a waist level finder wasn't for me. And that the RZ with the AE prism finder is too big for me. That combination would just be sitting on the shelf at home if I'd buy one. I don't care for square (6x6) so for me the choice became 645. The first MF camera was a Mamiya 645 Pro with a AE prism and the small winder grip. Lenses are good, fairly easy to get and affordable. Later on I wanted auto focus and now I have a Mamiya 645ADFIII with various AF lenses. The camera with a 80mm and 45mm lens fits in a small shoulder bag. I'm happy with the results and the image quality. My standard paper size is 11x14 inch. To the OP, if you're interested, we can do a print exchange so you can see for yourself what 645 can do. Maybe you can get a similar arrangement with 6x7 user.
 

Kodachromeguy

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Superb summary. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

I would like to put in a recommendation for the Rolleiflex TLR, the most amazing photographic device ever made (excluding the Hubble and machines like that).
 
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