Advice for new guy, RC or Fiber

[Newt_on_Swings]

The only time I worry about edges is if the rc has been in a holding bath too long. I usually print small batches and run them in my print washer and have not had any problems. The only time I've seen a decent amount of edge penetration was when soaking a rc print to try and stain it over night in tea, coffee, and table wine.

 

[Newt_on_Swings]

Oh I also forgot to mention ilford is doing a paper promotion where the regular 25sheet packs get 35 sheets instead. Might be a good choice for OP to use.

 

[tkamiya]

So i have been shooting film again and sending it off for processing. Last sunday i bought a really nice Durst f60 for cheap because i want to start making my own prints. I haven't been in the dark room since 1997 and i am a little rusty. My question is should i start with the cheaper RC paper or should i jump straight to Fiber. That is where i will eventually be anyway. Your opinions would be much appreciated.

Back to OP's original question....

I'd actually suggest OP to start with whatever he was using in 1997. Terry isn't new to darkroom and wet processing. He's just been away from it for a while. His muscle memory and brain memory will come back by the time he's done with the first box of paper. FB printing isn't any more difficult from RC for those who has done it already. It's just a bit different and takes a while longer. Once he starts doing it again, it will come back very quickly. So if his ultimate goal is FB and he was using FB, then I'd suggest re-starting with FB. If he was using RC back then, then start with RC.

Myself, I use both - choice of paper depends on what I am going to do with the print. I am not so big on having my prints archival since I know I'm not archival. I don't see anyone wanting to keep my prints for 100+ years. National museums haven't called me, yet, either.

 

[timor]

Maris, you could probably wash RC for 6 hours in the same way you wash FB without any adverse effects, should you so wish.

Not recommended, after too long in the water print will never be flat for the same reason FB is never really flat. With water trapped between sandwich of two plastic layers drying will be uneven. Plus there is a question of longevity of such a print, prolonged wash may cause much quicker separation of plastic from fiber base due to weakening of adhesives. Time of washing the RC papers should be similar to washing film, 15-20 min.

 

[BradS]

RC paper can have problems with extended wet times. Back in the 1980s I encountered brightener wash-out and edge penetration leading to slight delamination. The bad edges could be trimmed off but the brightener was gone for ever. Maybe the latest RC papers are better but I haven't used any this century.

Yes. RC paper has improved a great deal since the 1980's (1984 was 30 years ago!).

 

[BradS]

.....Time of washing the RC papers should be similar to washing film, 15-20 min.

I've left Ilford MG-IV in the clean water tub for an hour with no ill effects. I do not see this as an inconvenience. RC is still far easier and cheaper to work with. Results are just as good too.

 

[timor]

I've left Ilford MG-IV in the clean water tub for an hour with no ill effects. I do not see this as an inconvenience. RC is still far easier and cheaper to work with. Results are just as good too.

Leave it for 6 hours. 15 - 20 min is enough to achieve 50 years permanency. Do you want to wash longer ? Be my guest...

 

[Terry Breedlove]

Will a more aggressive wash enable shorter times in the water ?

 

[cliveh]

Will a more aggressive wash enable shorter times in the water ?

Not necessarily aggressive, but a higher water temperature (say 25°C) and more complete water changes will help.

 

[timor]

Will a more aggressive wash enable shorter times in the water ?

Use hypo wash rather. The first 2-3 min. clear about 90% of unwanted stuff in emulsion, problem is the remaining 10% and stuff embedded in the fiber. (with FB papers). Hypo and low solution of sodium sulfit will help to cut the washing time. Also higher temperature maybe like 22-24C. Below 18C wash is very ineffective.

 

[Terry Breedlove]

Great advice thank you. I will start with RC for many of the reasons stated in the above replies plus i have so many contact prints for my 35 mm negatives. So the learning and cost will be easier on RC. However I will switch to Fiber very soon after.

 

[timor]

Great advice thank you. I will start with RC for many of the reasons stated in the above replies plus i have so many contact prints for my 35 mm negatives. So the learning and cost will be easier on RC. However I will switch to Fiber very soon after.

Do you need good and "not that expensive" RC paper, check this:
http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulvcelpevaco4.html
Nice cold tone paper.

 

[Terry Breedlove]

A quick little video on drying Fiber flat.

http://youtu.be/4eyUaxbXVDo

 

[MattKing]

Use hypo wash rather. The first 2-3 min. clear about 90% of unwanted stuff in emulsion, problem is the remaining 10% and stuff embedded in the fiber. (with FB papers). Hypo and low solution of sodium sulfit will help to cut the washing time. Also higher temperature maybe like 22-24C. Below 18C wash is very ineffective.

For clarity:

"hypo" is an old name for fixer, so "hypo" means "fixer"

"Hypo Clearing Agent" is something very different. It is mostly sodium sulfite, and it does aid in reducing wash times.

For effective washing you need both flowing water, and diffusing water. Speeding up the flow may help to a point, but it needs to be combined with enough diffusion time to be fully effective.

 

[timor]

For clarity:

"hypo" is an old name for fixer, so "hypo" means "fixer"

"Hypo Clearing Agent" is something very different. .

Thank you Matt for this. Somehow I never used word "hypo" in reference to fixer but as short form of "hypo clearing agent" which I never used anyway. However on occasions I make sodium sulfite solution. Sorry for my lack of precision.

 

[polyglot]

Hypo clearing agent is sodium sulfite solution (plus some supporting ingredients to deal with hard water). So you are actually using HCA, just not a commercial version.

 

[timor]

Hypo clearing agent is sodium sulfite solution (plus some supporting ingredients to deal with hard water). So you are actually using HCA, just not a commercial version.

Yes I do. But the history of doing that is different for me, than knowledge of chemistry at that time, when I started. Just advice of an older photographer, in the country, where commercial HCA was not available. Then.

 

[removed account4]

RC papers have improved so much that I would not hesitate to use them. However, some galleries or collectors refuse to accept such prints.

hi gerald

that is weird that galleries and collectors refuse to accept rc paper, seeing all color ( except ink ) is
rc ( lightjet &c ) and lots and lots and lots of color prints are collected in galleries and museums ...
( or at least were collected )

I think it's the Library of Congress (or some other important repository) that only started accepting any 35mm-digital files for submission a few short years ago (not sure, but I think the Leica M9 was one of the first), before that it was only MF digital or film.
Let people accept what they want, most of the time it's easier to find new customers than to win over hard-headed ones...

in the usa many of the states that have HABS/HAER needs accept digital files and ink prints printed on specific papers deemed to be archivally stable
( i can't really comment on the LOC because the federal HABS project still accepts film and contact prints ... )
some of the states made the switch about 5 + years ago with a big push by the federal government ... mainly because of storage of negatives and prints from what
someone told me ... they began accepting rc prints back in the early 1990s for national register ( of historic places ) applications, survey and inventory forms
and i am also guessing historic tax credit applications ( phases I-III ) around the same time, mostly because starting in the 1990s late 1980s
it was extremely expensive for a shoestring budget historic preservation consultant to pay $25 / FB print done by a lab when they could get a machine print
for something like 50¢ ( if that ) ... when i do HABS work ( which i have been doing since about 1991 ) i try to explain to my client
that even though the whole digital thing might seem cost effective submitting images on a CD and ink prints might be problematic in the years to come
seeing a CD of images isn't really very stable ( some of my cds have gone bad less than a year after being burned .. imagine the whole state's collection being corrupt soon after images were submitted .. not good ! ) so if they want ink prints i don't care, but i would rather they have a hard copy ( negatives )
as a back up ...

 

[mklw1954]

I printed FB in the 1970s and early 1980s and when I got back in to it again in 2007 used RC. While I was happy with my RC prints, 2 years ago I tried FB to see if I was really missing something. I didn't think the FB prints were better and FB is a real pain in the ass.

Like anything, it's a matter of personal preference. Start with RC, try FB, and then decide what meets your needs.