Adventures with Edwal Red Toner

[mightyomega]

I didn't see any threads on Edwal Red Toner, so I figured I might post my experience with it.
Let's start from the beginning. I was in that Really Big Camera Store in New York City a few weeks ago, and on a whim I bought a bottle of the titular substance. I just got around to trying it today. Open the bottle, say the instructions, mix the cup full of orange crystals into the liquid, shake for two minutes, and then dilute 1:15 for use. Dip prints for 3-5 minutes, wash for 5-10, and done. Oh, and it is emphatic about wearing gloves.
So I donned a pair of disposable gloves, and followed the instructions. This stuff turns an alarming shade of violent pink when it's mixed. It has a bit of a greenish sheen (like fluorescence) around the edges of the concentrated solution. Diluted, it's a distinctly magenta red. In goes the print, for the requisite time and...
Before:


After:


This print was in the toner for 5 minutes, and washed for 10, all with tap temperature water. The whole process was done in room light, as per the instructions.

As can be seen, that ain't red. The actual print is a little bit more pink than the scan shows, but it's distinctly purple/fuchsia color.
Did I get a bad bottle?

Second, I'm trying to figure out what's in the solution, and the MSDS is of no use in figuring out what exactly this stuff is and what it does. The MSDS admits to potassium ferricyanide, which explains the green fluorescence in the solution, and acts to oxidize the silver in the print, so that it can be replaced or complexed with something else. The question is what that something else is. I am a chemist, but my specialties are physical chemistry and NMR spectroscopy, so this is a bit out of my area. Anyone have any suggestions? I read somewhere that some kind of nickel based toner produces magenta tones, any leads on that?

 

[nworth]

This looks to me like a dye toner, maybe similar to Kodak T-20. Notice how the highlights show more tone than the shadows. Dye tones use ferricyanide to partially bleach the image and form a silver ferricyanide mordant which then accepts a dye, giving the image color. The color image is not generally considered to be permanent. If the image color is at least somewhat similar to the solution color, that is probably it.

The more usual methods for getting reddish tones are to use copper toners, some of which are formulated for more red than brown tones, or to gold tone a print that has been previously sulfide sepia toned.

Kodak T-20 single solution dye toner
For film

Dye 200 mg
Methanol 100 ml (or acetone)
Potassium ferricyanide 1 g
Acetic acid (glacial) 5 ml
WTM 1 l

Dyes:
Nabor Yellow 6G
Nabor Orange G
Nabor Brilliant pink
Nabor Blue 2G
Bismark Brown 53
Phosphine 2 RN
Chrysoidine base
Chrysoidine 3R
Auramine (use 400 mg instead of 200 mg)
Victoria green (use 400 mg instead of 200 mg)
Rhodamine B (use 400 mg instead of 200 mg)

The nature of the tone varies with the time of toning, but eventually a point is reached where it is unsafe to continue toning as the gradation of the image becomes affected. Average toning time is 3 to 9 minutes.

 

[Marco B]

This looks to me like a dye toner, maybe similar to Kodak T-20. Notice how the highlights show more tone than the shadows. Dye tones use ferricyanide to partially bleach the image and form a silver ferricyanide mordant which then accepts a dye, giving the image color. The color image is not generally considered to be permanent. If the image color is at least somewhat similar to the solution color, that is probably it.

Seems to be confirmed here:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/tl_toners.php

"Any of the Berg Color Toning Kits and any Edwal "toners" are considered dyes."

If you want to undo the coloring, you might be able to simply redevelop it in normal paper developer. Don't know if that will completely remove the formed dye also though.

Marco

 

[mightyomega]

Ah! Now it makes sense. One would think, however, that if you were going to market "red" toner using dye, you might actually find a, you know, RED dye. I don't really want to get rid of the color, it's just interesting that the red isn't red.
Though the MSDS claims mainly inorganic active ingredients, but I suppose they don't really have to disclose anything unless it's a hazard.

 

[holmburgers]

I wonder what would happen if you were to bleach the silver image with farmer's reducer (or similar). Would the dye-image remain? Could be the magenta of a 3-color scheme..

 

[Rick A]

I bought a set of Berg Toners, and they are in fact dyes. the amount of color saturation can be readjusted, and the colors can be mixed to customize the look. The Berg red is in fact bright red. Does it require an activator prior to coloring? Try bleaching in fixer. The schtuff is fun to play with, but beyond that I see it as just a novelty. I dont find it too practicle. BTW, try different times in the toner for the results you desire.