adox VC Fine print papers

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by juggler, Feb 4, 2009.

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  1. juggler

    juggler Member

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    think twice before using fotoimpex (berlin)

    i know i will never use them again, the paper product (adox fine print FB) they sent me was in such a bad condition i threw it in the bin after two days

    to many problems associated with this paper , yellowing ,black spots, black fringing, yellowing and the worst customer service i have ever had the misfortune to be part of

    for me it ended in legal action to enforce my consumer rights.
     
  2. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    one of my worst photographic experiences was a order of adox paper from fotoimpex germany

    the paper was only fit for the bin , i wouldnd have even used it for practice sheets
    by far the worst paper product on the market by a long way

    my experience ended in legal action against them to retrieve my money

    no customer service with this product or company
     
  3. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    ive used this paper once and now it is buried in a landfill after being so disgusted by the quality and the amount of issues it had

    i have 20 year old ildford that is of better quality

    yellowed coating, brown coating,black spots, black fringing, surface flaws, rust spots

    and after emailing my concerns to adox , they emailed me to say that this was perfectly normal for there products

    says it all really
     
  4. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    With all due respect how can we be certain that these faults weren't down to you and your processing.

    There's two sides to any story and there's nothing in your posts to indicate clearly that the fault was with the paper. I'm certain that if that happened to most members here they would have scanned faulty prints, asked questions online & direct with Fotoimpex.

    I have bought large quantities of paper and some film from Fotoimpex and always found them helpful, while I haven't had a problem I'm certain that Mirko/Fotoimpex would investigate any quality issue and take it up with their suppliers. There are quite a number of people on APUG using Adox papers and you're the first to mention a problem

    Ian
     
  5. Pete H

    Pete H Member

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    I have been through several boxes of this without any of the issues mentioned by juggler. I find that for normal prints it gives good deep blacks and is slightly cool. There doesn't seem to be much colour shift with selenium toner, at least in my experience. Generally I like the paper and find I'm using it more and more. Yes, it is slow and needs plenty of time in the developer. I'm using a red led safelight and have no problems with fogging.

    That's the older Fineprint Classic VC FB, not the new Variotone (just to be clear).

    Pete
     
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  6. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    i was recommended adox paper from some posts on this forum a few weeks ago so i went ahead and bought two boxes from them, 40x50cm and A4 aprox

    i have now tested the paper to find out how it compares to other papers

    the paper has good speed on the baseboard and develops quickly considering it silver content.
    the surface of the paper is generally flawed and shows some creasing etc
    the paper tone is generally yellow but sometime has a brown overall staining
    the grey tones and whites are peppered with black and red spots on every sheet
    the edges show blackening that encompass the entire edge of the print

    overall rating 0 out of ten
    customer service is non existant

    this paper has now been filed in the bin

    does anyone else have experience of this paper ???
     
  7. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Why have you created a new account solely for the purpose of complaining about this paper?

    This account will be deleted or merged with your other account.

    Furthermore, it is unnecessary to duplicate the same information in four posts in different threads.

    Now would you care to post some scans illustrating the problems you've had and discuss your process? It's not obviously a problem with the paper.

    Whenever I've had questions about a fotoimpex product, and I've been purchasing from them since before they had any US distributors, I've always found Mirko to be helpful and responsive.
     
  8. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    here are some shots of two pieces processed with a totally blacked out room, using fresh chems on my durst 138s enlarger, i have shown close ups of some of the more noticable spots and colour changes

    also the damaged packaging
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Yes it"says it all really" that you felt the need to set up a fresh APUG account just to launch your attack on Fotoimpex.
     
  10. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    and really i dont need to hear anymore about safe lights, as i fully tested my safelight using the adox paper and it passed with flying colour after 10min of exposure

    but that still didnt stop me working on prints in complete darkness, even using my coulour Paper timer digital display cover.

    i was darker than a black hole in my darkroom

    even with colour i use a durst led 50, so i dont trip and kill myself, drowned and bludgened to death by my own darkroom equipment

    lol im such a geek
     
  11. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The fog could certainly have come from shipping damage or the damaged packaging or maybe damage from Customs, but the red spots are indeed strange and look like they could be emulsion defects. Did you e-mail these examples to Mirko? Presuming it's not a chemistry problem (have you actually tested this, tried a different developer and stop or no stop, particularly?), the images should speak for themselves.
     
  12. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    yes i emailed fotoimex on monday, they fianlly emailed me 3 days later (today) and
    here is the one email i recieved from them

    Dear Mr. Focal,(my mane is not mr focal )

    we are sorry about that what happend.
    we spoke about the first picture you send us
    but with the scan it's not clearly to see
    the result. (so why the hell didnt you email me)

    our demand ins to check your Workflow.
    Please try a development incl. stop and
    fix with a white, unexposed sheet AND pls
    do the same without any darkroomlight.(i had allready emailed to tell them i had done this with the same result)

    Pls check if there are any lights, maybee from
    a window or the door and tell us the result
    of that.(dont treat me like a child)

    In hope of a solution (maybe by next xmas)
    Best regards

    Andreas Kottlorz

    i had to threaten legal action and paypal dispute to get this response

    i mean im a professional printer , have been for years, i know off paper when i see it and this is the worst i have aver seen after hundreds of boxes of paper

    by the way anything in brackets is me talking sarcastically LOL
     
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  14. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    i couldn't remember if i had a user name / password so it seemed i had no choice but to register to post here, why are you bringing up such detail

    im a professional printer and have traded for many years in the British mags b and white mag, practical and amateur rags.(tait photographic)

    i no longer do this as i am set up doing the same here in amsterdam, holland

    i certainly am equal to make judgments on paper quality as any of the staff at fotoipmex(maybe even more qualified)

    i also renovate and sell over a thousand cameras /lenses a year.

    you will not find anybody more involved at all levels here in amsterdam
     
  15. Zathras

    Zathras Subscriber

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    Methinks we have a troll here:sad:
     
  16. OP
    OP
    juggler

    juggler Member

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    thats my experience, take it or leave it

    i for one regret the day i spent 250 euro with them, should have gone to see joel at nivo Shcwitzer in amsterdam.

    great customer service and motivated photographers unlike fotoimpex
     
  17. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    The paper product you are describing is not the subject of this post, it is another paper, made by another manufacturer, also sold under the Adox name. We get the message you don't like the particular paper you got (Adox fineprint FB). Fine, don't ever use it again, but stop tacking your impressions of this one paper of which you had one box that was a problem, onto any and all posts about Adox products.
     
  18. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    Fotoimpex has always been forthcoming with information and customer service, and provides first-class products. Your experience is unique to you, and does not reflect any other users experience. Just look around you. You have ressurected all old posts about Adox products. Do you see anyone, anyone at all experiencing the issues you complain about? The answer is NO.
     
  19. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    you can believe what you like

    i bought new paper from adox
    it is the worst paper i have ever used

    and adox wont even entertain that damaged packaging (hole 6cm long in box) could possibly be the cause, even though it clearly states on the box that the packaging should be undamaged or a replacement will be given

    oh no its all my fault ,a 20 year darkroom professional who leaves his darkroom door open

    im ashamed to be a photographer, that attitiude is enough to push me out of this profession for good.

    photography seems to be dead
     
  20. wogster

    wogster Member

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    A damaged box means either it was shipped defective or was improperly packaged for shipment, or happened to be one of those rare pieces that gets damaged outside of the control of the shipper. Sometimes Issues are outside the control of the shipping company as well, I saw once where a courier truck was rear ended and several pieces were severely damaged.

    You should have kept everything, including the outside box, and contacted them immediately, or refused the delivery as a damaged shipment.
     
  21. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    i did keep all the packaging and i did contact them straight away

    and in the end it took a legal threat to even get a reply to my email

    there customer service is astonishingly bad, and this is coming from someone who lives in holland, the land where service doesnt exist
     
  22. brianmquinn

    brianmquinn Member

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    We get the point that you are not happy with the paper. But this post looks like you are trying to seek revenge. That makes you seen not reasonable and most people will likely see ADOX as the victim here, not you. Calm down and realize that you too have made mistakes and sometimes taken 3 days to respond to an email.
     
  23. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Member

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    To be fair to Fotoimpex, they have no idea if you only picked up your first camera yesterday or have 20 years experience. I would imagine they get a lot of issues where user error is the culprit, so it would hardly be suprising that this is their first avenue of enquiry.

    Whether there is a problem or not with the paper, I think you are utterly misguided in your approach to this situation, such as not revealing your identity and posting anonomously on this forum with an account that, would appear, to have been created solely to launch the attack.

    And all this following only their first response to your problem, just yesterday.

    These things added together means that none of what you say here is likely to be taken seriously by anyone.

    This is especially in view of the fact that I'm not sure there have been any other complaints reported here about Adox-Fotoimpex.
     
  24. OP
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    juggler

    juggler Member

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    i had to threaten legal action just to get a answer to my email

    thats fair dont you think?
     
  25. ADOX Fotoimpex

    ADOX Fotoimpex Partner Partner

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    Dear Mr. Tait,

    We received your email on Monday Feb. 2nd.
    Because it involved a technical claim it was immediately forewarded to me by sales.
    We investigatet the problem together with our technicians on tuesday but because you did not mention the emulsion number all we could do is checking a sheet randomly (without any result).
    In your email you wrote that you had checked your darkroom safelight for "Fineprint VC" (this is exactly what you wrote). We were under the assumption you meant Kentmere Fineprint VC which is safe for orange light. Our paper is not safe for orange light and thus we instructed Andreas to send you the email which you have posted.
    He did this the first thing in the morning on wednesday.

    Going by our working hours the turnaround time for this answer was less than 2 days including a technical pre- check.

    To your email sent as an answer to this we replied within less than one working day thursday morning.

    This is our standard turnaround time for technical answers.

    Our probelm is that we don´t know what you want.
    Apparently you are not interested in technical support, even though your first inquiry sounded like this.

    So we offered you to send back the paper for a refund.

    Apparently you are not interested in this either, rather you want to accuse us and start threads like this.

    In this respect we are unable to help you.
    If you want a refund just send back the product.
    It´s a very simple procedure: Goods back / money back.

    Best regards,

    Mirko
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2009
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