Adox MC110 Quality Control

[kauffman v36]

This by no means is a rant on this product, in fact it is my favorite paper to date, but i do have one thing to mention.

ABout a month after it first came out i ordered a 25 sheet 8x10 pack to try it out. i instantly fell in love, the tonal range is gorgeous and i prefer it to MGIV and MGWT. However, in that pack, there were maybe 4 or 5 sheets of the 25 with dark lines along the veryyyy edge and in one case a spot of emulsion had come off.

This leades me to my current issue. I have a spring review coming up for school where we put up 10 prints, unmatted, on the wall, for critiquing by all art faculty. Of course, i decided it was worth it to splurge on some mc110 for this. I ordered a 25 sheet 11x14 box to make the 7/10 b&w prints i am putting up. So i start printing, everythings fine, then i notice the black line on the edge of the paper, not every edge, always one edge of the paper.

i tried it without exposing the paper and just putting an unexposed test strip in the developer, flipping the paper in the easel, it was always the same side. Now, the box was factory sealed till it got inside the darkroom that day so it leads me to conclude its a factory problem, ontop of the fact that ive seen it before. i will still be putting up the prints, 4/7 i believe have this faint but visible line accross the top edge, but it does bother me that such a wonderful paper has this annoying problem. matting the prints wouldsolve it but thats not an excuse.


Ill try to get a picture of what im talking about but i can imagine im not the first one to have this problem. on some sheets its more than others, very straight line, not as if the paper has been fogged, it seems like it happened when the sheets were cut since its all on the same edge. i dont know really.


Any help is appreciated!
And thank you to adox for coming out with a new b&w paper that more than happy to pay the premium for.

-Robert

 

[MaximusM3]

It is the paper I use most and yes, I've had some of the same issues. It hasn't stopped me from using it but it's worth mentioning. Quality control may be an issue but beggars can't be choosers, I guess. Film, on the other hand, have tried a few times but gave up, as I was rarely happy with the inconsistent results which I know for sure have nothing to do with my processing routines. Like I've said though, I am happy I can still shoot film and have a few great choices of paper.

 

[subsole]

I've been using the Adox MCC 110 in different sizes for over a year now,
and didn't experience any flaws.
The results are nearly identical with the old Agfa Multicontrast Classic.

 

[brucemuir]

Everyone raves about this paper but I have yet to try any.
I hope this is an isolated issue.

The days of Kodak quality are disappearing.

Can you get the "black line" into the border area and then trim it?

 

[ath]

You should contact Mirko from Fotoimpex who made this paper. Send him an email, or better, give him a call.

 

[brucemuir]

The days of Kodak quality are disappearing.

QUOTE]

What are you referring to here? Have you noticed flaws in Kodak film or chemistry?

No Michael, I was merely lamenting the fact that Kodak makes no BW paper anymore and the films are dwindling also.

You could alway rely on them as far a QC was concerned. No guessing, No reports of either scratched emulsions or cruddy backing paper with 120 film.

I love the Eastern European products for their uniqueness but it seems these types of complaints are far too common.

 

[kauffman v36]

Everyone raves about this paper but I have yet to try any.
I hope this is an isolated issue.

The days of Kodak quality are disappearing.

Can you get the "black line" into the border area and then trim it?

i dont get what you mean about getting it into the border area, its on the very edge of the paper, i could trim it but i prefer not to trim it in order to keep all my paper size and image size identical.

ill try and get a photo this week since my prints are at school right now.

Also, i use adorama house paper for all my work prints for 8x10 and actually prefer it to MGIV personally. not to rag on MGIV but its too cool and harsh for my taste. i know toning can take care of that but i print in a darkroom where there are 18 other enlargers so the chemicals haveto work for everyone.

ill contact fotoimpex, anyone have a phone number/email handy?

Thank you

 

[ath]

[...] its on the very edge of the paper, [...]

Do I understand this correct, the black line is where the paper has been cut?
This happens, it is due to the silver halides being "exposed" by pressure.
My Agfa MCP has this rather often. A careful rub along the edge while the print is in the water removes it easily.

To contact Fotoimpex: www.adox.de or www.fotoimpex.de

 

[mikebarger]

I really like this paper, but moved to Ilford until 100 sheet boxes show up.

 

[Roger Pellegrini]

Is this VC paper?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Mike,

Mirko has explained on previous occasions that due to the Adox pricing structure, 100 sheet boxes of 8"x10" Adox MCC would not be available at significant discount over the 25 sheet packaging.

Tom

 

[Photo Engineer]

If it were pressure sensitization due to cutting, well, you have 4 cut areas per sheet so by this reasoning you should (or could) have up to 4 black lines per sheet.

When you see only one black line, and can attribute it to a factory problem it may be one of several things:

1. Pressure sensitivity fogging the paper which is set on end as a whole roll. This crushes one edge and can fog it.

2. A light fog along one edge due to some sort of leak at the factory or in packing. Check the black bag and see if the seal is tight along the fogged edge.

I'll probably think of a few more.

Good luck.

PE

 

[2F/2F]

The days of Kodak quality are disappearing.

QUOTE]

What are you referring to here? Have you noticed flaws in Kodak film or chemistry?

I may be wrong, but I read it as Bruce saying that Kodak's quality is top notch, and hard for other manufacturers to match. I didn't read it as him saying that Kodak's quality has gone downhill.

If this is what he meant, then I agree. I feel the same way about Ilford and Fuji, though. I've never had so much as a minor problem with any product from either of these "Big Three." But I have had at the very least minor quality issues with every product I have used by one of the "alternative" manufacturers. The only ones that have totally destroyed shots for 100 percent analog purposes have been Efke/Adox films and occasionally Fotokemika paper. However, if I really wanted to save those shots, I could use digital methods.

 

[mikebarger]

I've participated in those discussions, but a savings is still a savings. Until then, I'll keep using the Ilford brand.

 

[kauffman v36]

wow, lots of responses. thanks.

yes its only along one edge, and no, it does not come off by rubbing, tried that while i was printing when i couldnt figure out what it was. the reason i dont think its fogging due to light is that the line is very thin and doesnt bleed at all, as if drawn with a ruler.

i pm'd mirko and am awaiting a response.

 

[Photo Engineer]

If paper or film is rolled into a tight roll preparatory to cutting, any impact, fold, crease or exposure will create a very fine line along the area of contact.

It will look as if drawn by a ruler!

PE

 

[OzJohn]

I think this may be my first post - but I have been lurking for a while!
In Australia we can get very few of these obscure Euro products (that often seem to be of dubious manufacture) and that does not concern me one bit.
Those of us who like to print our own B&W should be supporting Ilford with every dollar we can because they are not only the last of the big four still coating B&W paper but probably the only one, big or small, that will be left standing before too long.
Let's not kid ourselves either that any of these products coming out of Europe are really Agfa by another name - AgfaPhoto is dead. A coating machine once owned by Agfa or a couple of "chemists" who once worked for Agfa do not make an Agfa factory.
I have much the same feelings re film. While there is more choice available in film, if we want to continue to have, say, TriX available, let's support Kodak and buy the stuff instead of some off-brand emulsion that may not be here next month or if is could well be made by someone else in another country.
Collectively we don't need to repeat the Kodachrome saga and not use it for 10 years but profess lifelong love for it then complain bitterly when the manufacturer drops it.

 

[2F/2F]

Collectively we don't need to repeat the Kodachrome saga and not use it for 10 years but profess lifelong love for it then complain bitterly when the manufacturer drops it.

Exactly.

Buy lots of film...and then SHOOT it so you need to buy lots more!

I have been a sinner myself as of late. I normally shoot a lot. But I don't think I have shot more than a couple frames of film in the past month with my current schedule (14 - 18 hour days during the week).

 

[ath]

...obscure Euro products (that often seem to be of dubious manufacture)
...
should be supporting Ilford ...

Well, be careful when bashing European products. After all Harman (not Ilford) is in the UK which is still part of Europe. Might be confusing when being so far away....

 

[kauffman v36]

while it is not agfa, adox products are coming surprisingly close to agfa in terms of results. i also use ilford products, and support them in every way possible, but if everyone JUST bought ilford then every other european company would for sure go out of business.

 

[Ulrich Drolshagen]

I have had this issue too and could identify the plastic bag as the culprit. It is made of a folded sheet welded together at the edges. This welding creates up a breaking point where you get light leaks easily if you bend the material too often. Mirco should chose on more spacious boxes and think over the assembly method for the bags.

Ulrich

 

[kauffman v36]

Ulrich,

ill check the bag today, the funny thing is it happened the very first time i opened the box. so unless someone at adox had been folding my black bag over and over (which i doubt, lol) it had never been folded other than when it was packaged.

 

[Trond]

In Australia we can get very few of these obscure Euro products (that often seem to be of dubious manufacture) and that does not concern me one bit.

Well, they may be obscure to you, but they are certainly not to me! Foma and Fotokemika are well established players in this field, and I have used their products for years, in addition to products from Ilford, Kodak and Fuji.

And I can assure you that Adox MCC 110 is a high quality product, matching that of Agfa MCC 111. If they didn't now what they were doing, I doubt they would be able to make anything even remotely similar.

I haven't experienced the issue discussed in this tread, but I'm sure it will be resolved. I just got some more Adox MCC 110 24x30cm paper from Fotoimpex, and the boxes are now bigger compared to the old ones I have.

Trond

 

[Ulrich Drolshagen]

I just got some more Adox MCC 110 24x30cm paper from Fotoimpex, and the boxes are now bigger compared to the old ones I have.

Proving that Mirco has an ear for his customers.

Ulrich

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Robert,

please post a scan of one of your prints. I think at this point every one has a different imagination of the lines you are talking about.
This is definitely not a common problem.
I would very much welcome if the other gentleman who states that he had the same problem please do so as well so we can compare the lines, identify the problem and look for a fix.

Another gentlemen stated that he found inconsistencies with our CMS 20 film. As this is practically impossible I would welcome some more clarification on this issue as well. I would imagine it is rather a chemical problem and not a film issue as we have sold CMS 20 from the same frozen coating batch over the past 5 years with absolutely identical parameters and up to today zero claims.
The film will give inconsistent results if it is not developed in ADOTECH developer however. ADOX has never released the film to be developed in anything but ADOTECH.

None of the products mentioned above btw. are of Eastern European origin.

It is also difficult for me to judge a statement refering to "efke/adox" films. There is no such thing as "efke/adox" films.
Please let me know if you encountered problems with an ADOX or with an efke branded film and ofcourse it would be interesting to know here as well what the actual problem was.

Best wishes,

Mirko