Adox HR-50 First Time User

[250swb]

Other than the IR capabilities, what do you all think about HR-50 vs good old Ilford Pan F+? I'm about to get a bulk roll, and am debating which to get.

I have been using Pan F+ for a while, and get consistently good results with Adox FX-39 II (1+9) or Clayton F76.

I only tried HR-50 once, with same FX-39 II, but find the contrast a bit harsher than Pan F+.

With HR-50 delicacy is the watch word even if it can be developed successfully in many developers, unlike other copy films. With FX-39 swish the developer gently in the tank and absolutely do not over-fix to avoid bleaching, I generally use a 1.45 min fix in Ilford Rapid but after a clearing test on the film leader.

 

[blee1996]

With HR-50 delicacy is the watch word even if it can be developed successfully in many developers, unlike other copy films. With FX-39 swish the developer gently in the tank and absolutely do not over-fix to avoid bleaching, I generally use a 1.45 min fix in Ilford Rapid but after a clearing test on the film leader.

Thanks for the tip. It appears that I both over-agitate during development and over-fix compared to your practice.

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

I only use cheap beer. It does smell like stale beer but not overpowering. My recipe is here in my Flickr Beerenol group. Beerenol

Perhaps you can push the film a stop or two using a good I P A beer!
LOL

 

[BAC1967]

Perhaps you can push the film a stop or two using a good I P A beer!
LOL

I did use a home brewed Porter that I made, didn't make much difference. I have used Budweiser, Rainier, Pabst Blue Ribbon and Fosters. It's often what someone left at my house after a party. I don't drink the cheap lagers, so at least it goes to a good use.

 

[What About Bob]

The K-1000 was my first SLR. Someday I'll get it serviced.

I like the feature of this film being a 3 in 1, through the use of filters. Reminds me of Kodak's old Tech Pan film with the exception of being all set for use as a pictorial film with common developers. I'll be waiting for the 120 version. Curious to see how it performs in BT2B.

 

[Henning Serger]

Other than the IR capabilities, what do you all think about HR-50 vs good old Ilford Pan F+? I'm about to get a bulk roll, and am debating which to get.

Well, I have tested both. Results:
- HR-50 has significantly finer grain, higher resolution and better sharpness
- the characteristic curve of PanF+ is more linear, that of HR-50 more S-shaped
- the spectral sensitization is of course different (super-panchromatic vs. panchromatic).

Both films are excellent, and from both you can make very large prints from 35mm film with excellent quality. Especially with the modern, much improved high-performance lenses. These films with these lenses are a perfect combination.
But HR-50 has a very clear and visible advantage here: Enlargements from HR-50 35mm film often rival enlargements of classic emulsion films in medium format (4.5x6, 6x6).
You get a kind of 'medium-format-quality' with 35mm HR-50 / SCALA 50 concerning detail rendition.

And you get that quality at really very fair and attractive prices. ADOX has furtunately not followed KA's policy of very high price increases.
The price-performance ratio of HR-50 / SCALA 50 is really very outstanding.

I have been using Pan F+ for a while, and get consistently good results with Adox FX-39 II (1+9) or Clayton F76.

ADOX FX-39 II works really very well with both films - PanF+ and HR-50.

I only tried HR-50 once, with same FX-39 II, but find the contrast a bit harsher than Pan F+.

Well, that impression is because of the more S-shaped CC of HR-50 compared to PanF+.
But if you want you can successfully reduce the contrast and improve shadow detail by using fill-in flash with manually reduced flash-power. That works extremely well, especially with the modern film cameras with very sophisticated and excellent working TTL flash systems. As lots of the these cameras and flashes are currenly extremely cheap on the used market (totally underrated and overlooked by both the older customers, and the young, new film users), you need very little money to benefit from that amazing technology.

My recommendation: Start your fill-in flash tests with a flash power with minus two stop manual reduction. Look at the results, and if necessary, adjust the manual power reduction for more, or for less shadow detail. Just as you like it.
The results with modern fill-in flash systems with manually reduced flash power look so natural and well balanced that in most cases a viewer cannot recognise that a flash was used.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[blee1996]

My recommendation: Start your fill-in flash tests with a flash power with minus two stop manual reduction. Look at the results, and if necessary, adjust the manual power reduction for more, or for less shadow detail. Just as you like it.
The results with modern fill-in flash systems with manually reduced flash power look so natural and well balanced that in most cases a viewer cannot recognise that a flash was used.

Hi Henning, thanks for your informative reply as usual! I will certainly try out fill-flash, in addition to finesse the develop/fix. I have modern film camera and TTL flash at my disposal.

 

[blee1996]

For people in the US, Freestyle has HR-50 100ft bulk roll listed as preorder with targeted shipping date of mid Nov. And the price is quite reasonable. I have no business affiliation with them, just a regular customer.

 

[blee1996]

With HR-50 delicacy is the watch word even if it can be developed successfully in many developers, unlike other copy films. With FX-39 swish the developer gently in the tank and absolutely do not over-fix to avoid bleaching, I generally use a 1.45 min fix in Ilford Rapid but after a clearing test on the film leader.

If I develop several rolls of different film (HR-50, Pan F+, Rollei XRP 25) in one tank, will the reduced fixing time (e.g. 1.45 min suggested here instead of my usual 5 min) have any negative effect on other film?

 

[John Wiegerink]

If I develop several rolls of different film (HR-50, Pan F+, Rollei XRP 25) in one tank, will the reduced fixing time (e.g. 1.45 min suggested here instead of my usual 5 min) have any negative effect on other film?

Are you using Ilfords rapid fixer? I can't say if a longer than 1:45 minute fix time would hurt or not. All I know is that with the alkaline fixer I use 7 minutes or even a little more doesn't make any difference in film density for me anyway. 1:45 minutes seems pretty short even for a rapid fixer, but like I say, I don't use it, so I don't know for sure.

 

[blee1996]

I just did the practical test with Ilford Rapid fixer (1+4 dilution, not fresh, already used 16 out of 24 roll capacity). 3.5 min fixing at 68F:

- Adox HR-50: perfectly fixed, film base clear and transparent without any color
- Rollei RPX 25: perfect, same as above
- Ilford Pan F+ 50: slightly pink tint, but well fixed as usual

I used Adox FX-39 II 1+9 dilution, 7 min at 68F with very gentle inversion.Their contrast level is from highest in Adox HR-50 to lowest in Pan F+. Rollei is quite close to Adox.

I need to scan them to find out the sharpness and resolution.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I just did the practical test with Ilford Rapid fixer (1+4 dilution, not fresh, already used 16 out of 24 roll capacity). 3.5 min fixing at 68F:

- Adox HR-50: perfectly fixed, film base clear and transparent without any color
- Rollei RPX 25: perfect, same as above
- Ilford Pan F+ 50: slightly pink tint, but well fixed as usual

I used Adox FX-39 II 1+9 dilution, 7 min at 68F with very gentle inversion.Their contrast level is from highest in Adox HR-50 to lowest in Pan F+. Rollei is quite close to Adox.

I need to scan them to find out the sharpness and resolution.

Good news! I got to thinking after my post that you Could have checked the film itself after about a minute and then watch for it to clear and then double that time. You know, the old tried and true way. Of course that would put you just about where you are on fixing time.

 

[250swb]

If I develop several rolls of different film (HR-50, Pan F+, Rollei XRP 25) in one tank, will the reduced fixing time (e.g. 1.45 min suggested here instead of my usual 5 min) have any negative effect on other film?

I think you'd risk under-fixing other films. HR-50 has a very thin emulsion hence the short fixing time (also like CMS20).

 

[Alan Johnson]

I think you'd risk under-fixing other films. HR-50 has a very thin emulsion hence the short fixing time (also like CMS20).

https://www.agfa.com/specialty-products/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2017/06/AVIPHOT-PAN-80.pdf

Where did you get your view that this film (for aerial surveillance )has a very thin emulsion like CMS 20 II (document film)?
I do not recall any suggestions from other sources that Aviphot 80 and its derivatives require less than normal fixing.
Maybe your claim refers only to the case where the fixer has been tested for clearing time before use.

 

[loccdor]

I use a rapid fixer and most films clear in well under a minute. However I'm still using a standard 5 minute fixing time with Scala 50 / HR-50 and haven't experienced issues. I do at least a 7 bath wash after.

By the way, I've collected almost 50 rolls of Scala 50 now that B&H had a $6.49 sale on very recently expired stock. I'm assuming with its slow speed expiration would take a long time to affect it at all. Compared to other films being sold at a discount it is much more technically impressive.

But HR-50 has a very clear and visible advantage here: Enlargements from HR-50 35mm film often rival enlargements of classic emulsion films in medium format (4.5x6, 6x6).
You get a kind of 'medium-format-quality' with 35mm HR-50 / SCALA 50 concerning detail rendition.

And you get that quality at really very fair and attractive prices. ADOX has furtunately not followed KA's policy of very high price increases.
The price-performance ratio of HR-50 / SCALA 50 is really very outstanding.

I totally agree, this matches my experience and thank you for your recommendation. And I like that it remains fine-grained in Rodinal. I plan to not take any medium-format cameras on my main photo trip this year, because of a combination of Scala 50, Sensia 100, and image stabilized fast lenses to help with the lower sensitivity.

 

[Alan Johnson]

I am in the process of finding a development time for this film in PC-512 Borax developer and noticed that on enlargements to 16 in wide on a computer screen, tiny white dots a fraction of a mm across can be made visible with HR-50. At EI=25 they are virtually invisible, at EI=50 slightly noticeable if look for them and at EI=80 quite noticeable. I don't think this is a property of the developer as it has been noticed with a completely different developer at EI=100 with Aviphot 80. So for this film which has a higher resolution than T-Max or Delta 100 there may be a downside too, some may consider not good for big enlargements with exposures at higher than box speed.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I am in the process of finding a development time for this film in PC-512 Borax developer and noticed that on enlargements to 16 in wide on a computer screen, tiny white dots a fraction of a mm across can be made visible with HR-50. At EI=25 they are virtually invisible, at EI=50 slightly noticeable if look for them and at EI=80 quite noticeable. I don't think this is a property of the developer as it has been noticed with a completely different developer at EI=100 with Aviphot 80. So for this film which has a higher resolution than T-Max or Delta 100 there may be a downside too, some may consider not good for big enlargements with exposures at higher than box speed.

Alan,
Were the white dots with using PC-512? That is a strange EI related thing and never remember hearing anything like that before. Did you get that with any other developer that you tried?

 

[Alan Johnson]

Alan,
Were the white dots with using PC-512? That is a strange EI related thing and never remember hearing anything like that before. Did you get that with any other developer that you tried?

Developer for Aviphot Pan 200

Here is one of the tests. Carbonate produced slightly higher emulsion speed. At first glance it looks more significant than it is, but you can see a significant portion of the density increase is just more fog, which is to be expected. When I high pH is used for bath B, a formula typically will...

www.photrio.com

This is the example I recall. It is a pretty high magnification.

 

[250swb]

https://www.agfa.com/specialty-products/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2017/06/AVIPHOT-PAN-80.pdf

Where did you get your view that this film (for aerial surveillance )has a very thin emulsion like CMS 20 II (document film)?
I do not recall any suggestions from other sources that Aviphot 80 and its derivatives require less than normal fixing.
Maybe your claim refers only to the case where the fixer has been tested for clearing time before use.

A spot test on the leader will show you the initial clearing time.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Developer for Aviphot Pan 200

Here is one of the tests. Carbonate produced slightly higher emulsion speed. At first glance it looks more significant than it is, but you can see a significant portion of the density increase is just more fog, which is to be expected. When I high pH is used for bath B, a formula typically will...

www.photrio.com

This is the example I recall. It is a pretty high magnification.

Thanks for jolting my memory Alan as I now have went back and read that whole thread with interest. I never got around to trying your MeCD4 or my MeCD2. Might be worth a try, but I'm wrapped up in BTTB and a couple other developers for HR-50 at the moment. I am going to order another bottle of FX-39II to try with this film since my old bottle is past its prime I'm afraid.

 

[Alan Johnson]

I am posting 30mpx jpegs to Flickr Pro which may have more detail than most Internet images so many may not notice the spots.
MeCD4 was superseded by CD4-LC which is easier to use.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I am posting 30mpx jpegs to Flickr Pro which may have more detail than most Internet images so many may not notice the spots.
MeCD4 was superseded by CD4-LC which is easier to use.

Alan,
I'm curious to see what you finally choose as the Holy Grail for films like HR-50. I'm liking both BTTB and Karl's 2B-1 so far, but haven't really rung both out it to really find which is best. I have found 2B-1 to be slightly grainer with HR-50 than BTTB. Does that bother me? Not really, since the film is very fine grain to begin with I thing it actually enhances the apparent sharpness. So, if it actually gives a boost in speed/shadow detail I'll gladly use it.

 

[Robert Ley]

After reading this thread and watching Andy's video, I'm intrigued by this film. I love the way it reacts to the different color filters and its infrared capabilities. I'm getting back to using 35mm film and ordered a hundred foot roll from freestyle and it arrived a couple of days ago. I don't know whether I'll get a lot of use with this film until spring although I will run some development test before I start to use this film in earnest. I have three developers that I'll try, DDX, HC-110 and Rodinal, any suggestions?

 

[John Wiegerink]

After reading this thread and watching Andy's video, I'm intrigued by this film. I love the way it reacts to the different color filters and its infrared capabilities. I'm getting back to using 35mm film and ordered a hundred foot roll from freestyle and it arrived a couple of days ago. I don't know whether I'll get a lot of use with this film until spring although I will run some development test before I start to use this film in earnest. I have three developers that I'll try, DDX, HC-110 and Rodinal, any suggestions?

I don't know much about HR-50 and DDX, but I think both Rodinal and HC-110 used at very high dilutions should get close to where you want to go. Do a search here and Google for HR-50 developed in both those developers. I'm sure you'll find suggestions as to dilution and times.

 

[Robert Ley]

I don't know much about HR-50 and DDX, but I think both Rodinal and HC-110 used at very high dilutions should get close to where you want to go. Do a search here and Google for HR-50 developed in both those developers. I'm sure you'll find suggestions as to dilution and times.

I have on hand the DDX and HC-110 and the Rodinal is on its way. I'm aware of the dilution schemes with developing this film and the massive developing chart lists the chemicals and times and several people have talked of using DDX . Has anyone experienced shooting this film in winter, specifically snow conditions as we have a far amount of the white stuff where I live.