ADOX Film.... Manufacturing, Shipping?

mshchem · Sep 26, 2021

Team ADOX said:
Well, not in the short and mid term. Demand is too low. And we are still fighting strongly against all the negative impacts of the current pandemic. It will take some time to overcome all these negative impacts of the last 14 months. We generally expect the situation to be improving from this summer on, but the improvements will be step-by-step, and it will take time. Probably 12-18 months to reach a "pre COVID level".

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

Do you have an update on the situation at Adox? Seems like everything at Freestyle is out of stock. I'm going to be ordering some items from Fotoimpex, I would like to try some liquid products but DHL (I'm assuming) won't handle liquids.
Everything is in short supply all over the world from the pandemic.
Best Regards Mike

Zathras · Sep 26, 2021

mshchem said:
Do you have an update on the situation at Adox? Seems like everything at Freestyle is out of stock. I'm going to be ordering some items from Fotoimpex, I would like to try some liquid products but DHL (I'm assuming) won't handle liquids.
Everything is in short supply all over the world from the pandemic.
Best Regards Mike

If you order from Fotoimpex, be prepared for a long wait. The shipper that they’re using is sending everything by sea to the US. I placed an order with them last year and it took about two and a half months to get to me. Fotoimpex shipped it right away, but the shipping company took a long time to get it to me. I plan to order from them again, but not for anything I’m going to need right away.

Sal Santamaura · Sep 26, 2021

mshchem said:
...I'm going to be ordering some items from Fotoimpex, I would like to try some liquid products but DHL (I'm assuming) won't handle liquids...

As best I'm able to determine, if one can place a liquid item in one's FOTOIMPEX cart and check out, DHL will not have a problem getting it to the U.S. Many such items' weight, however, does seem to up the shipping charge significantly.

Zathras said:
If you order from Fotoimpex, be prepared for a long wait. The shipper that they’re using is sending everything by sea to the US. I placed an order with them last year and it took about two and a half months to get to me...

That was then, this is now. My most recent shipment (earlier this month) took exactly two weeks from Bad Saarow to my door.

m00dawg · Sep 26, 2021

That's DHL I would bet? They straight up lost my package and, alas, it contained some of the special edition Silvermax and several other goodies Fotoimpex was very easy to deal with there, issuing me a refund, but still, that was a pretty huge bummer. It's not the first time I've had issues with DHL either. Their English site is only half English (and half functional) so it's also hard to sort anything else out. At one point I had to use Google Translate for the German site just to try and make some sort of progress with requesting an update on tracking. This on top of the "Covid premium" DHL charges. If you're gonna charge a premium, you better damn well deliver my package then (they did not). A pretty big mess honestly. I have to ship packages worldwide with my own tiny business so I know it can be problematic to use multiple shipping companies. But I'd definitely pay more for UPS for sure.

To be clear I'm not blaming FotoImpex here at all but DHL is definitely a huge problem. I suspect they're involved getting packages to Freestyle too so that may explain those long delays as well :/

mshchem · Sep 26, 2021

I've had terrific service with DHL shipping from Japan. Our airport has a direct connection to DHL's Cincinnati Ohio hub airport. Not sure if that would make any difference coming from the EU.

Sal Santamaura · Sep 26, 2021

m00dawg said:
That's DHL I would bet?...

FOTOIMPEX shipments to U.S. customers start out with DHL but, upon arrival here, USPS takes over.

m00dawg said:
...They straight up lost my package...It's not the first time I've had issues with DHL either...

Did DHL lose your package or was it USPS?

m00dawg said:
...DHL is definitely a huge problem. I suspect they're involved getting packages to Freestyle too so that may explain those long delays as well...

The DHL/USPS "surface air lifted" (SAL) shipping used when individual U.S. customers order directly from FOTOIMPEX is apparently a completely different mechanism than what's causing long delays in ADOX (and other brands) availability at Freestyle. 70+ ships at anchor off the southern California coast, held up by labor shortages at the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, are the real reason for continuously slipping "due from vendor" dates on Freestyle's Web site. Monetary cost of ocean surface shipping is much lower, making it possible for Freestyle to offer products at lower prices than it would need to charge if it paid the same rates as we do for SAL transport. Cost in shipping time, however, is much higher.

m00dawg · Sep 26, 2021

It was DHL. Twice in fact. Once it was from FotoImpex and another was from Zaribo (a German company that sells 3D printer parts). The latter eventually turned up but it took like 6 months which was even more frustrating because I had already gotten a refund but then had to send it back. Of course, if my lost Silvermax ever turns out, I'll gladly pay FotoImpex for it! Actually I should say it was probably DHL since USPS never claimed the package, but given DHL's also sub-par reporting and worse English based customer service, who knows.

I will say, I also have to use DHL for Prusa Printers along with Intrepid and both of those have arrived quite speedy. So it's possible I was unlucky for sure. The main thing that irks me isn't so much a package was lost (but oh my precious Silvermax!) it's the ability to communicate with DHL is nil and I'm a stickler on customer service. But on the pro, FotoImpex is quite easy and wonderful to deal with. I expect I'll be ordering from them again, but will probably wait for that "Covid Tax" to drop off DHL first. On the other hand, if they offer another shipping carrier, heck, I might place an order tomorrow!

Sal Santamaura · Sep 26, 2021

m00dawg said:
It was DHL...I should say it was probably DHL since USPS never claimed the package, but given DHL's also sub-par reporting and worse English based customer service, who knows...

I've no detailed information about your shipments, but, given how the U.S. Postal "Service" has been trashed lately, it seems much more likely that USPS was the culprit. DHL has no way to track packages once USPS receives them other than via USPS' own tracking. And, in each of the four instances over the last year when I ordered from FOTOIMPEX, there was no USPS tracking after the container arrived at JFK. My packages just showed up at my door. Not even scanned as "delivered" by USPS when that happened.

mshchem · Sep 26, 2021

Ooh, once it lands into the hands of USPS it's anyone's guess. I know about the shipping/unloading mess. There's so many containers sitting on ships, no one can get an empty. Patience is required. Sounds like I just need to plan for extended delivery times.

Zathras · Sep 26, 2021

m00dawg said:
That's DHL I would bet? They straight up lost my package and, alas, it contained some of the special edition Silvermax and several other goodies Fotoimpex was very easy to deal with there, issuing me a refund, but still, that was a pretty huge bummer. It's not the first time I've had issues with DHL either. Their English site is only half English (and half functional) so it's also hard to sort anything else out. At one point I had to use Google Translate for the German site just to try and make some sort of progress with requesting an update on tracking. This on top of the "Covid premium" DHL charges. If you're gonna charge a premium, you better damn well deliver my package then (they did not). A pretty big mess honestly. I have to ship packages worldwide with my own tiny business so I know it can be problematic to use multiple shipping companies. But I'd definitely pay more for UPS for sure.

To be clear I'm not blaming FotoImpex here at all but DHL is definitely a huge problem. I suspect they're involved getting packages to Freestyle too so that may explain those long delays as well :/

Yes, it was DHL. Fotoimpex shipped it and it ended up sitting at a facility in Hamburg for two months

m00dawg · Sep 26, 2021

It's possible though I will say I get International shipments via USPS fairly often, and also ship International via USPS several times a month and have had zero problems. Yet I've had multiple issues when when DHL has been involved. It could be coincidence for sure but I don't think that lets DHL off the hook of being very difficult to contact for English speakers, particularly given their Covid tax. I don't mind paying that if I have to but the implication should be I get my packages and, if I don't, I have some means to contact them to remedy the issue. I had to go entirely through FotoImpex to find anything out on the DHL side (and FotoImpex also had trouble dealing with them too when handling my issue).

I absolutely love what Adox/FotoImpex are doing. CHS 100 is my favorite large format film, XT-3 is my favorite developer - easily better than Xtol (though 510 is starting to impress me), MCC-110 is my favorite paper, I'm super excited to try Lupex, etc. etc. - but I'll go on record as saying, so far, my worst experiences with the company happen to go through DHL. And yes, some of this salt is because that Silvermax is at the bottom of the ocean for all I know but, at best, DHL has been inconsistent before loosing my package when ordering from FI. Sometimes it was 2 weeks, sometimes 2 months (that was before the pandemic too).

Logicistics I'm sure aren't easy and I think DHL is their equivalent of USPS (though I think it's fully privatized unlike USPS). As a small business owner, I use USPS for the cost and convenience where a company like UPS is just out of reach to be cost effective for tiny ole me. So I get it, but still, it's definitely a sore point in my otherwise wonderful FI experience.

Sal Santamaura · Sep 27, 2021

Zathras said:
Yes, it was DHL. Fotoimpex shipped it and it ended up sitting at a facility in Hamburg for two months

Perhaps. Or possibly Hamburg was the last scan while it sat in a USPS New Jersey facility for two months.

mshchem said:
...once it lands into the hands of USPS it's anyone's guess. I know about the shipping/unloading mess. There's so many containers sitting on ships, no one can get an empty. Patience is required. Sounds like I just need to plan for extended delivery times.

I hope my posts weren't unclear. The USPS bottleneck for individual FOTOIMPEX DHL-shipped orders to the U.S. seems to have been cleared. To reiterate, my last shipment earlier this month took exactly two weeks from Bad Saarow to my front door. Container ships are not involved in this kind of order. You've no need to expect an extended delivery time.

It's ocean surface shipping that's backed up, affecting Freestyle and others who don't pay the much higher monetary cost of Surface Air Lifted carriage. Backup at the ports has no impact on individual FOTOIMPEX orders destined for the U.S.

m00dawg · Sep 27, 2021

Not that I don't believe ya Sal, but I thought I'd get Freestyle's take on it and they did indeed confirm the issue with product delivery is the container ships. So yep looks like using FI is the best option for potentially faster service. I will say, even with the Covid Tax, if one order's enough stuff direct from FI, it can end up being cheaper too. Flipside though that means when a package does get lost (we can agree to disagree on who we think is more likely to loose said package ) it's a lot of money to have to worry about getting refunded for and things. I'd really like to get my hands on some Lupex paper but I think I'll wait to see how things go given the open wound left by not getting my hands on the limited edition Silvermax. Of note too my opinion of DHL hasn't changed and I would still very much prefer to see alternative shipping options as an ideal from FI.

Zathras · Sep 27, 2021

Sal Santamaura said:
Perhaps. Or possibly Hamburg was the last scan while it sat in a USPS New Jersey facility for two months. I hope my posts weren't unclear. The USPS bottleneck for individual FOTOIMPEX DHL-shipped orders to the U.S. seems to have been cleared. To reiterate, my last shipment earlier this month took exactly two weeks from Bad Saarow to my front door. Container ships are not involved in this kind of order. You've no need to expect an extended delivery time.

It's ocean surface shipping that's backed up, affecting Freestyle and others who don't pay the much higher monetary cost of Surface Air Lifted carriage. Backup at the ports has no impact on individual FOTOIMPEX orders destined for the U.S.

That's good to know, Sal. I do believe that mine was shipped by sea back then. My package seemed to be "in transit" through Hamburg
for nearly two months. Since Hamburg is a major sea port and DHL finally told me that it was coming by ship. I'm glad that doesn't
seem to be the case now. Looks like it's time to place another order.

mshchem · Sep 27, 2021

ABC (USA) evening news tonight reports record backup of shipping. Ships off California dropping slightly from over 60 to 51 (reported by ABC). Apparently Costco is leasing vessels to dedicate space for winter holiday season products.

urnem57 · Oct 10, 2021

Hi
I love CHS II in 4x5, but I am making every kind of error imaginable with that paper that separates the film sheets. If it’s electrostatic charged and adhered to a sheet of film, it’s really difficult to feel that it is there. I have loaded more than a few sheets of it along with the film and wasted film by doing this. In my most recent development run I had a solid white piece of paper (it can’t be film, can it?) in the reel along with only 1 sheet of film. I was running a test and thought I had loaded 2 sheets of film. If it is the paper, it turns white if developed in Rodinal 1:50. I have run through 4 or 5 boxes of this film, but this paper is really a problem for me so far. Any suggestions? I am considering giving up on this film because of the frustration that this causes. No other 4x5 film to my knowledge has paper in between every sheet of film. Adox, why do you use this? Has anyone else had this problem? Can anyone offer a solution or suggestions? Thanks

K-G · Oct 10, 2021

urnem57 said:
Hi
I love CHS II in 4x5, but I am making every kind of error imaginable with that paper that separates the film sheets. If it’s electrostatic charged and adhered to a sheet of film, it’s really difficult to feel that it is there. I have loaded more than a few sheets of it along with the film and wasted film by doing this. In my most recent development run I had a solid white piece of paper (it can’t be film, can it?) in the reel along with only 1 sheet of film. I was running a test and thought I had loaded 2 sheets of film. If it is the paper, it turns white if developed in Rodinal 1:50. I have run through 4 or 5 boxes of this film, but this paper is really a problem for me so far. Any suggestions? I am considering giving up on this film because of the frustration that this causes. No other 4x5 film to my knowledge has paper in between every sheet of film. Adox, why do you use this? Has anyone else had this problem? Can anyone offer a solution or suggestions? Thanks

Yes, when I first tried the CHS 100 II in 4 x 5 , I also by mistake loaded a paper sheet together with the film. Fortunately it was on the back side of the film so the image wasn't totally ruined, but it caused some problem with inserting both film and darkslide. After some training it is no longer a problem. You just have to be careful when loading, and making an extra check at the edge of the film helps. It is an absolutely wonderful film, and I wouldn't be without it.

Karl-Gustaf

lecarp · Oct 10, 2021

urnem57 said:
Hi
I love CHS II in 4x5, but I am making every kind of error imaginable with that paper that separates the film sheets. If it’s electrostatic charged and adhered to a sheet of film, it’s really difficult to feel that it is there. I have loaded more than a few sheets of it along with the film and wasted film by doing this. In my most recent development run I had a solid white piece of paper (it can’t be film, can it?) in the reel along with only 1 sheet of film. I was running a test and thought I had loaded 2 sheets of film. If it is the paper, it turns white if developed in Rodinal 1:50. I have run through 4 or 5 boxes of this film, but this paper is really a problem for me so far. Any suggestions? I am considering giving up on this film because of the frustration that this causes. No other 4x5 film to my knowledge has paper in between every sheet of film. Adox, why do you use this? Has anyone else had this problem? Can anyone offer a solution or suggestions? Thanks

Adox is not the only company to have used this packaging method, you really can't fault the film maker for user error.

AgX · Oct 10, 2021

But this case shows that there are users not expecting a dividing paper, more so even not realizing that there is one.

Adox already puts up a warning on only to open in darkroom, here already one could argue, on who is doing the contrary. Thus why not hint at sticky dividing sheets?

m00dawg · Oct 10, 2021

That's odd, I don't find the paper sticks to my film at all. Certainly not saying it isn't an issue of course! I would imagine it's perhaps that I live in a somewhat humid climate usually. Having the paper stick to the film would not be fun for sure!

I actually prefer the paper because it helps me from accidentally getting my fingers on the emulsion side of the film and also, in a way, helps me avoid multiple sheets in holders. When I'm done loading film I count the paper I have left and it should match what I just loaded.

urnem57 · Oct 10, 2021

I am not blaming, faulting, or leveling any sleights against our friends @ Adox. As I mentioned, I love the film. I am really just looking for ideas on how to correct my film holder loading procedure.
Out of curiosity, what other sheet films use paper? My experience with Tmax 100, TriX 320 & 400, Rollei RPX 25, and Ilford Delta 100, and HP5 has not indicated that these emulsions have any paper in between sheets. FWIW I only had loaded 1sheet of film and 1 sheet of paper. The paper turned white, but the sheet of film came out fine.

mshchem · Oct 10, 2021

This is the first I've heard of this. I suspect that Adox is very careful about how the film is handled, this is one more safeguard against film scratching film. Good to know. I've been planning on trying several different Adox products. Currently I use their Rodinal, terrific stuff.
A bit difficult right now with the chaos in cargo ships and containers. Maybe I will fly to Germany

ADOX Fotoimpex · Oct 16, 2021

Interleaving paper is a quality criteria. The main reason is humidity. Films featuring interleaving paper were also called "tropical" in the past. I was not aware that other quality manufacturers had abandoned the interleaving paper. Not to mention that I would ever expect to hear it would be better to leave it out ;-). Not having interleaving paper has in the past been a low quality indicator (budget film). This paper is very expensive and difficult to source. Leaving it out would be a considerable cost savings.
It is possible to leave it out but then film is more prone to scratching and expecially sticking. In very humid environments it will become unusable. You can somewhat work against this by vakuumizing the film pack but after it has been opened you can run into trouble around the aquator.

flavio81 · Oct 16, 2021

mshchem said:
I've had terrific service with DHL shipping from Japan. Our airport has a direct connection to DHL's Cincinnati Ohio hub airport. Not sure if that would make any difference coming from the EU.

Me too. Shipping from Japan to Peru using DHL or FedEx takes just a few days, is totally reliable, and costs less than shipping from USA using USPS Priority International (plus it's quicker.)

Sal Santamaura · Oct 16, 2021

ADOX Fotoimpex said:
Interleaving paper is a quality criteria. The main reason is humidity. Films featuring interleaving paper were also called "tropical" in the past. I was not aware that other quality manufacturers had abandoned the interleaving paper. Not to mention that I would ever expect to hear it would be better to leave it out ;-). Not having interleaving paper has in the past been a low quality indicator (budget film). This paper is very expensive and difficult to source. Leaving it out would be a considerable cost savings.
It is possible to leave it out but then film is more prone to scratching and expecially sticking. In very humid environments it will become unusable. You can somewhat work against this by vakuumizing the film pack but after it has been opened you can run into trouble around the aquator.

Mirko, I have absolutely no insight as to where your products are used, but suspect very little sheet CHS-100 II is sent anywhere near the equator.

Do you know whether your sheet film hardening is comparable to the modern hardeners other manufacturers like Bergger, HARMAN and Kodak use? If so, I can report that here in coastal southern California, where relative humidities of 70% to 90% are typical, I've never had sheet film from any of those companies stick together, even after Kodak's laminated, sealed inner envelopes are opened for a while.

Eliminating your interleaving paper might have another benefit. There are small clear areas on my CHS-100 II sheet film negatives. I don't have a microscope, but, using a 30X loupe, those spots look like they might be particles from the interleaving paper blocking light during exposure. Going forward I'll bring a large Static Whisk brush into the darkroom and gently run it over the emulsion side of sheets before inserting them into holders. The edges of your sheet CHS-100 II are rather rough and upon close inspection reveal an uneven emulsion edge. However, I don't think emulsion flakes are the problem since, if they were, negatives' spots would likely be of slightly higher density than the clear film base I see.

Thanks very much for looking into this.

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