Adox CMS II 20 in 120

Discussion in 'Industry News' started by peoplemerge, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. peoplemerge

    peoplemerge Member
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    I shot a roll of 120 and went to freestyle the other day and was surprised to see they didn't have it in 120... the computer said they aren't carrying it anymore.

    I hope this film isn't going anywhere because it fits in a tight spot in my work. Plenty of availability in 35mm and 4x5 makes me think it's just backordered. B&H is out too so it's not just Freestyle.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Rudeofus

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    FotoImpex in Germany appears to carry it, so it is not gone AFAICT.
     
  3. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Adox is the offspring of Fotoimpex.
     
  4. OP
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    peoplemerge

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  5. Poisson Du Jour

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    There are boxes and boxes of the stuff at two of my dealers ... nobody seems to want to use it.
     
  6. OP
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    peoplemerge

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  7. Tumbles

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    If I could find it I would definitely use it. I got a bottle of the developer last summer and I've been looking for it ever since. Last time I checked the Adox website there wasn't any word about the availability.
     
  8. ADOX Fotoimpex

    ADOX Fotoimpex Partner Partner

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    We never voluntarily discontinue any product. If it is still listed this means we are trying (hard) to (eventually) bring it back. Things are not easy. Look at the other manufacturers trying to bring back products. Prices are low, demand is low (compared to the volumes for which this industry was once built) and complexity is enourmous. It´s certainly possible to manufacture a quality b/w film but you need so many things to be perfectly working in place that the raw profit derived from selling the final product in small amounts at low prices is not enough to always catch up on all ends in a timely manner. In many cases it is not enough to ever break even. Many competitors of ours have never made a profit yet.
    Market consolidation is continuing. You all have observed the final product manufacturers like Agfa, Forte, Fotokemika, Ferrania, Ilford and others go into liquidation and exiting the market. What you have possibly not observed are the consolidations in the background. In the past years we lost many partners making us preproducts like coating for us, making film casettes, boxes, sleeves, backing paper, slitting films, spooling films, mixing powder chemicals, making needed additives and stabilizers and many more.
    In the past 24 months these consolidations have been going on faster than ever before. We have to jump in at so many places at once (while the new building is not yet finished) that unfortunately some products went out of availability while we work on bringing back the missing links.
    This is also the case for manufacturing 120 films. We now have to slit them ourselves and we need to have our own backing paper soon. Our slitter was never designed to slit final pancakes. We always had this done elswehere and only used it for the master rolls. It sounds trivial but whoever things this is trivial shall step upfront and try to slit film without flashing it, without scratching it without putting any dust on it while making a clean cut and rewinding it exactly at the needed torque not to tight (pressure fog) and not to loose (falls of the machine) and ofcourse without any loss because @ current price levels you can´t absorb any losses at all nowhere in the chain.
    If we were to speed up the "bringing back" we needed cash to burn (not to borrow - it will never be seen again) and skilled people. We don´t have either one in excess and thus we moove along at the speed which we can realise out of the cash stream coming from selling non photo-products @ Fotoimpex and with the team of people we can finance like this and who are available.
    At present we seek a mechanic/mechatronic but we can only offer part time due to cash limitations. Guess how many job aplications we have received in the past 14 months of searching?
    Exactly, zero. If we find one the capability of manufacturing 120 films will be achieved back faster. If not, it takes longer.
    How long exactly? As soon as we know we´ll let you know ;-)
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  9. Old-N-Feeble

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    ^^^ Thank you for your post. Thank you for your continued support of and love for analog photography. I will certainly remain one of your loyal customers.
     
  10. NedL

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  11. freecitizen

    freecitizen Member
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  12. Pioneer

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    Thanks for the update.
     
  13. flavio81

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    I'm looking at the new building pictures, this is extremely exciting. I salute ADOX and its investors for having the courage to continue in this business, which -as you say- it is of low volume and high complexity.

    This is excellent. Let's hope you are able to join some forces with Ferrania, perhaps a joint business relationship with regards to 120 packaging or materials could be helpful!! They also have a big catalog of complete blueprints for specialized machinery (like slitters) so perhaps they could be of some help here as well.
     
  14. ADOX Fotoimpex

    ADOX Fotoimpex Partner Partner

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    We have blueprints from Agfa, Ilford, Konica and others. Blueprints of the old times are valuable but only helpfull to a certain extend. Usually these machines are too big. This was an industry and now is an arts and crafts business. Challenges are to scale it down, adopt it to modern technology and find, encourage and tie young people.
    We are moving along on all ends but sometimes not quite as fast as our customers wish.
    If I was to make a judgement how much has been achieved already I´d say >90%.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  15. ADOX Fotoimpex

    ADOX Fotoimpex Partner Partner

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    The "Investors" are you. Other than some of our "competitors" we do not ask for upfront money. Rather we sell you good products at a competitive price and promise to use all revenues derived from Fotoimpex´s sales for the building of the factory and new products. So as long as you buy things from Fotoimpex we reinvest the revenue. This has been the case for the past 25 years and will be for the future.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  16. OP
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    peoplemerge

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    Dear @ADOX Fotoimpex,
    I'm thrilled and touched by your personal and detailed response to my query. I appreciate the situation you find yourself in and I love transparency. Although I am relatively new to many of your products, only having discovered CMS 20 II a year ago, I see the investment in time and treasure it took and the attention to detail you took it the development of the film and chemistry as a system. Make them afresh and I pledge to continue to buy them.
     
  17. flavio81

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  18. Stephen Prunier

    Stephen Prunier Subscriber
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    Thank You for the information
     
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