ADOX CMS 20II PRO vs ADOX HR135-36

zanxion72 · Jul 1, 2021

I am just about to get a bunch of slow 135 BW rolls. I came across ADOX CMS 20II PRO and ADOX HR135-36, both 50 ASA films with just 1€ price difference per roll. What are their differences? Are they good, the same, which one is better? How do they fare up to Ilford's PanF?

Donald Qualls · Jul 1, 2021

CMS20 (the original) used to be ISO 20-25 -- I know Adox has a specific developer for it, but I wasn't aware they were getting more than a full stop boost.

Alan9940 · Jul 1, 2021

For general pictorial use, CMS 20 II is rated at EI 12 - 20, if developed in their Adotech developer. I believe that in low contrast situations the film can be pushed a bit to EI 32, again, in their developer. I've used both the original and v2, but I've never heard of anyone shooting it at 2x box speed. That said, there is probably someone out there doing just that!

Andrew O'Neill · Jul 1, 2021

CMS 20 II is really finicky when it comes to developers. I've test many, and the best is their Adotech IV. EI 12. It's extremely sharp, with invisible grain. HR-50 has extended red sensitivity out to 750nm. It will give you an infrared look with an R72 filter attached.

pentaxuser · Jul 1, 2021

zanxion72 said:
I am just about to get a bunch of slow 135 BW rolls. I came across ADOX CMS 20II PRO and ADOX HR135-36, both 50 ASA films

Can you tell us what your information source is that tells you both films are 50 ASA? Thanks

pentaxuser

Alex Benjamin · Jul 1, 2021

zanxion72 said:
...both 50 ASA films...

Info on CMS 20 II on the Adox website is pretty clear: "If used in pictorial photography the film achieves 20 ASA of usable speed in ADOTECH developer. If used for high contrast purposes the usable speed increases to 80 ASA. If developed in non dedicated low contrast developers (HC 110, cafenol etc) it can be exposed at 3-6 ASA. However we do not recommend using a different developer and we cannot guarantee for the results."

In other words, it's only a 50 ASA film if you want it to be.

zanxion72 · Jul 2, 2021

Yes, I am looking for a 50 ASA roll and PanF is out. The seller suggested me one of these for use as 50 ASA. I was not aware of all these. Could they give good results if used with FX-1? No Adotech developer is at hand.

Alan Johnson · Jul 2, 2021

The best things in life are analog | HR-50 with “SPEED BOOST” (adox.de)
I have in the past developed microfilm-type films (not this particular one) in FX-1.The results were a bit grainy compared to recommended developers but the excess contrast was tamed.

removedacct1 · Jul 2, 2021

zanxion72 said:
Yes, I am looking for a 50 ASA roll and PanF is out. The seller suggested me one of these for use as 50 ASA. I was not aware of all these. Could they give good results if used with FX-1? No Adotech developer is at hand.

Not sure where you got the idea that CMS 20 II is 50 ASA, as its clearly labeled by Adox as a 12 ASA film, if you want pictorial tonality in your negatives. HR-50 is faster by about 1 or 1.5 stops, but only gives a nominal speed of 50ASA when used with Adox's special developer. Same with CMS 20. Both can be developed in POTA developer to give pictorial results, but you won't get speeds anything close to 50 ASA.
Have you considered Tmax 100 or Delta 100? Either of those films, exposed at 50 ASA can deliver outstanding results for 35mm.

Alex Benjamin · Jul 2, 2021

paulbarden said:
Have you considered Tmax 100 or Delta 100? Either of those films, exposed at 50 ASA can deliver outstanding results for 35mm.

I've never tried it, but if OP is looking for Pan F-like results, I would also advise this. Better to pull a 100 ASA film than to push a 20 ASA film, especially if the company making the 20 ASA film tells you that the effect of pushing will be unpredictable and will be high contrast.

Andrew O'Neill · Jul 2, 2021

paulbarden said:
Not sure where you got the idea that CMS 20 II is 50 ASA, as its clearly labeled by Adox as a 12 ASA film, if you want pictorial tonality in your negatives. HR-50 is faster by about 1 or 1.5 stops, but only gives a nominal speed of 50ASA when used with Adox's special developer. Same with CMS 20. Both can be developed in POTA developer to give pictorial results, but you won't get speeds anything close to 50 ASA.
Have you considered Tmax 100 or Delta 100? Either of those films, exposed at 50 ASA can deliver outstanding results for 35mm.

POTA was one of the developers I tested CMS 20 II with. It was the best until I tried Adotech IV. Clear winner. That tiny little bit of developer is just too pricey for me, though.

removedacct1 · Jul 2, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
POTA was one of the developers I tested CMS 20 II with. It was the best until I tried Adotech IV. Clear winner. That tiny little bit of developer is just too pricey for me, though.

Andrew, I only suggested this because the OP said the Adotech developer wasn't available to him.

relistan · Jul 2, 2021

I have not shot CMS II 20 myself, but the best results I have ever seen from it are from Ruediger Hartung on Flickr. He is pre-flashing it and developing in POTA at ISO 6: https://www.flickr.com/photos/53687643@N04/46273258975/

He also recommends a pre-wash in washing soda to get right of the anti-halation layer. Have a look at his stream.

I myself have shot a few rolls of ADOX HR-50 and that's a really nice film. Metering is reasonably important because the latitude is less than for other films. ADOX has adjusted the curve with Speed Boost, but it's still a big S shape. Here are a couple at EI25 in one of my ascorbic acid two bath developers:

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jul 3, 2021

relistan said:
the best results I have ever seen from it are from Ruediger Hartung on Flickr. He is pre-flashing it and developing in POTA at ISO 6: https://www.flickr.com/photos/53687643@N04/46273258975/

Hartung's results are quite nice. However, that he had to preflash to get a speed of 6 should be more than adequate warning for OP on what to expect if he shoots the film at EI 50.

Donald Qualls · Jul 6, 2021

When I last used the original CMS20, I got an honest EI 20 with Caffenol LC+C -- a low concentration Caffenol (half the original amounts of coffee and ascorbate, as I recall), and grain I couldn't see in an 8x10 from 35mm.

zanxion72 · Jul 7, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
When I last used the original CMS20, I got an honest EI 20 with Caffenol LC+C -- a low concentration Caffenol (half the original amounts of coffee and ascorbate, as I recall), and grain I couldn't see in an 8x10 from 35mm.

I had completely forgotten Caffenol! Many thanks for the advice on coffee/ascorbate! At least I can easily find the ingredients fro caffenon where I am these days.
Thank you!

fs999 · Jul 7, 2021

LC+CNew (I name it CLCN) is a perfect match for CMS20. I add 1 minute for CMSII and the shadows are fantastic. Here the Caffenol recipes.

Donald Qualls · Jul 7, 2021

@fs999 Your link is broken -- either that, or my work computer's network is blocking the site. Looks like you need to add the https:// (or http:// if it's not a secure page).

fs999 · Jul 7, 2021

Sorry a d was missing. My site provider is asking 500 € per year for https. There are no data gathered so no need for encrypted transfer.

Donald Qualls · Jul 7, 2021

Ah, works well now. Nice compact format, everything needed to mix and use Caffenol once you understand the concept.

fs999 · Jul 7, 2021

Thank you !
The Facebook group Caffenol, founded by Dirk Essl (Delta-Std and Delta-Micro recipe), is also a good source of knowledge.

Donald Qualls · Jul 7, 2021

fs999 said:
Thank you !
The Facebook group Caffenol, founded by Dirk Essl (Delta-Std and Delta-Micro recipe), is also a good source of knowledge.

I still have a Facebook account, but haven't logged into it in years. Not likely to restart any time soon, either.

Tenchi · Jun 17, 2023

Hi, based on digitaltruth.com, if develop this film (adox cms 20 ii) with Rodinal (1+100) is 18 minutes. Is it enough or I need to do stand developing?

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 17, 2023

Tenchi said:
Hi, based on digitaltruth.com, if develop this film (adox cms 20 ii) with Rodinal (1+100) is 18 minutes. Is it enough or I need to do stand developing?

That time sounds more inline with a semi-stand or full on stand time. I've developed this film in several developers, but not Rodinal. What EI did you expose the film at?

Tenchi · Jun 17, 2023

Andrew O'Neill said:
That time sounds more inline with a semi-stand or full on stand time. I've developed this film in several developers, but not Rodinal. What EI did you expose the film at?

Hi Andy, noticed you use Adoxtech IV, xtol, POTA & Caffenol. Can I use ur caffenol time as reference?
Expose at EI 20. Currently only Rodinal is available with me now. Scare 18 minutes will underdev the film.
This youtuber said Rodinal very bad choice as developer for this film.

ADOX CMS 20II PRO vs ADOX HR135-36

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