ADOX CMS 20 -- Wow!!

Night Drive 2

D
Night Drive 2

  • 1
  • 0
  • 634
Night Drive 1

D
Night Drive 1

  • 1
  • 0
  • 638
Sonatas XII-49 (Life)

A
Sonatas XII-49 (Life)

  • 1
  • 1
  • 1K
市

A

  • 1
  • 3
  • 1K
Approaching fall

D
Approaching fall

  • 7
  • 4
  • 2K

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
199,710
Messages
2,795,502
Members
100,008
Latest member
nostalgia
Recent bookmarks
0

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,350
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
I recently shot and processed my first roll of ADOX CMS 20, a new high resolution film (i.e. microfilm in a 35 mm cassette) apparently packaged for J&C Photo and/or Fotoimpex.

I'm impressed!

First, this stuff is about 25% cheaper than the Imagelink and Copex microfilms J&C sell in the same form. That's always good in my book. And though J&C offers their Adotech developer for it, they don't bundle it as Gigabit does, and as a result, again, don't push the pricing through the roof. Since I've been shooting microfilms in my subminiature cameras for a couple years, and processing them myself with good results, I wasn't afraid to handle this film with my own process, so I ordered five rolls and no developer.

I shot the first roll at EI 20, using the (recently repaired and calibrated) internal meter in my (recently serviced) Spotmatic SP. Aside from the first few shots on the roll, hoping a combination of very long lens, adequate exposure, and extremely fine film grain might allow me to get a usable image of Jupiter (well, it's big enough I'll probably try enlarging, but I don't see any detail in the planet when scanning -- less exposure next time, so much for inverse square law), I shot a number of high-detail subjects around my home. Processing was with my usual microfilm developer, Caffenol LC+C, with a guessed time, extrapolated from known times for fast and slow microfilms of other types, of 15 minutes, with continuous agitation for the first minute, then five inversions in 10 seconds every third minute.

Based on shadow detail and contrast, this looks like a very effective speed and time. As with most microfilm stocks, the base of this film is quite clear, though it appears the antihalation is adequate to avoid the necessity to load in the dark as is the case with some other clear-base 35 mm films. Unlike some rebranded films, this one has completely normal edge markings, with the brand information repeating on one edge, and frame numbers on the other, running from 1 to 37 with "A" half frame markings, though without the 0 and 00 frames I'm used to seeing on Kodak and Fuji films.

I haven't had a chance to print the negatives yet, but scanning at the highest resolution I have available, 2400 ppi, shows extremely smooth images, even at 1:1 crop, and sharpness that does an exceptional job of pointing up one of the limitations of hand held photography -- when shooting wide open, focused close, with a fast lens (Super Takumar 50 mm f/1.4), the depth of field is so shallow that unavoidable body movement while composing and the limitations of the eye and focusing screen will leave the focus off the intended plane more often than not -- not enough to be noticeable in most prints, but more than enough to show on screen at what amounts to 24x enlargement.

However -- the fact I can see this level of unsharpness at this resolution says much about the resolution of this film; even ISO 100 films I've used recently, Foma 100 (under various brandings), Neopan SS, and Delta 100, don't come near to recording detail smaller than a pixel at this resolution, but it appears CMS 20 can in fact do so, and with the right lens and sufficiently careful focusing, ought to be capable of duplicating the feats used to advertise other microfilm derived high res films.

I'm used to Caffenol LC+C delivering a significant speed increase over simpler low contrast developers on other microfilms, but the coupled offering of Adotech with CMS 20 suggests that the advertised speed is to be obtained with that optimized developer, so it's not surprising to see I gained no speed over the rating; I'd guess this film is similar speed to Imagelink HQ, which gives EI 12 in a POTA-like developer and EI 25 in a speed gaining developer like the one SPUR offers for it.

Future plans include attempting reversal processing, in hopes of getting up to EI 50 or 64, which (for the way I shoot) is a lot more usable film speed...
 

Attachments

  • 10.jpg
    10.jpg
    144.2 KB · Views: 1,044
  • 12.jpg
    12.jpg
    99.3 KB · Views: 908
  • 15.jpg
    15.jpg
    92.4 KB · Views: 827
Last edited by a moderator:

Curt

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
4,618
Location
Pacific Nort
Format
Multi Format
Aren't slow speed fine grain films incredible? We need more fine grain films in small sheets and 120 roll films.
 

colivet

Member
Joined
May 28, 2004
Messages
246
Format
8x10 Format
Interesting, but can't see that film listed in the website.
 

dmax

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Messages
110
Location
Los Angeles
Format
Multi Format
Donald,

If the film promises as much as has been uncovered, I'm looking forward to seeing results of reversal processing. Is the film base very clear?
 
OP
OP
Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,350
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Like all microfilms, the film base is extremely clear. With the Caffenol LC+C, there's a little stain in between the sprocket holes, and the image is slightly brown with imagewise stain, but in non-staining developers it ought to be as clear as fully fogged Kodachrome.

Curt, this stuff goes beyond slow, fine grained films -- as a microfilm stock, it's designed to put a full magazine page of text in an 18x24 half frame (or a tabloid sheet in a full 24x36) and keep the half-tone illustrations crisp. I've got 5x7 prints from 13x17 mm negatives on Copex Rapid (which is a faster, slightly coarser grained version of this type of film) that show no hint of grain with a loupe on the print -- that's at 10x, approximately. I'm told the slower microfilms, like this CMS 20, are capable of 8x10 prints from a Minox frame (8x11 mm), which is about 25x, without the grain being noticeable, and I've seen demonstration prints at 64x that show the lens running out of resolution without grain becoming objectionable.

It's genuinely the case that, in terms of resolution, the film is not the weak link with this film (or other microfilm stocks). Your lens or ability to hold the camera still will betray you before the film gives up.

As a bonus, unlike the only "conventional" ISO 25 film on the current market, Efke 25, the CMS 20 and most other microfilms have a perfectly ordinary "Type B" panchromatic response. Efke 25 is almost red-blind, about two stops off in the red region, while Tech Pan had extended red response of about one stop increase over what we're used to with films like Tri-X and Plus-X. CMS 20 seems to have a color response very similar to T-Max 400 -- it picks clouds out of a sky a little better than Tri-X, but still records red berries at close to the same value as green leaves, so should respond about the same way to filtration as conventional B&W films.
 

BradS

Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
8,124
Location
Soulsbyville, California
Format
35mm
Interesting stuff! Thank you for the detailed write up Donald.
 

Dave Wooten

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Messages
2,723
Location
Vegas/myster
Format
ULarge Format
Thanks Donald,

I brought home 2 rolls of this film purchased from John while at the Apug convention....since I have no experience with this type of film your info is much appreciated as well as the good report is exciting...

Dave in Vegas
 

Tom Hoskinson

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
3,867
Location
Southern Cal
Format
Multi Format
I've got 3 rolls of it on its way to me, plus a liter of Bluefire developer.
 

Roger Hicks

Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
4,895
Location
Northern Aqu
Format
35mm RF
Aren't slow speed fine grain films incredible? We need more fine grain films in small sheets and 120 roll films.
Dear Curt,

Very much a matter of personal taste. The vast majority of ultra-fine-grain negs I've seen have been grievously over-enlarged, resulting in that 'glassy' look you get when you blow up a box-camera image more than about 2x. In other words, the lens is the limit, not the film. Tonally, too, I've only ever seen two or three Tech Pan images that I regarded as tolerable at ANY magnification, which for me is even more damning.

Sure, if it works for you, it works for you. But there are an awful lot of people it doesn't work for, which may be why these films are not more popular.

Cheers,

Roger
 
Last edited by a moderator:

gainer

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 20, 2002
Messages
3,699
You're right, Roger. The only time I care about grain itself is when I'm testing a developer or testing the resolution of a lens. I suppose a photomicrograph of a patch of grain might be passed off as a piece of art once, but only once, and it would probably be more interesting if it were not from the finest grained film.
 

Roger Hicks

Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
4,895
Location
Northern Aqu
Format
35mm RF
.... I suppose a photomicrograph of a patch of grain might be passed off as a piece of art once, but only once...

No, no, no. a 'Body of Work' (the same idea beaten to death over a period of several months or years) is as important as the 'Artist's Statement' (an apology for the fact that the work doesn't speak for itself).

When are you putting in the grant application? As your agent I'll settle for 10%.

Cheers,

Roger
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
It has been done...

But perhaps with Roger's assistance you could pursuit a living on that.
 

greybeard

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
366
Location
Northern Cal
Format
Large Format
I missed this thread when it appeared a year ago, but would have pointed out that in the late 1960s this sort of thing was quite popular; the buzzwords were "thin emulsion" and "Lippmann emulsion" (which seems to have been seriously off-base). Agfa Isopan FF in Rodinal was one of the popular approaches, but Kodak Fine Grain Positive (basically, Kodabromide emulsion on clear film stock for making projection positives) seemed to give even better sharpness in surface developers. In retrospect, it may have been the straight blue sensitivity that helped, reducing diffraction slightly (shorter wavelength) and eliminating residual chromatic aberration. In the same era, it was often recommended to use a green filter for photography through a microscope, for pretty much the same reasons.

It would be interesting to see the spectral sensitivity of the film stock that was mentioned in the original thread.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
For the Addox CMS 20 / Spur Orthopan UR no spectral sensitivity curve is available.
Spur call their film orthopanchromatic which to my understanding would be something sensitized like the Agfapans.
 

Len Eselson

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
8
Format
Medium Format
J&C are no longer in business as of May 12 according to their web page.
Anyone have a US source for adox cms 20?

Len
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
An interesting link.
Sorry, I’m using their printed catalogue (as pdf) which does not have those technical data. Somehow I did not expect them somewhere on their (renewed?) website…

So I was wrong with the analogy with the Agfapans too. They have a sort of shoulder at 650nm, which means they reach 650nm at mean sensitivity and not at log -1.5 as the Adox.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Michel Hardy-Vallée

Membership Council
Subscriber
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Messages
4,794
Location
Montréal, QC
Format
Multi Format
J&C are no longer in business as of May 12 according to their web page.
Anyone have a US source for adox cms 20?

Len

A couple of us have talked about doing a group purchase of CMS 20 + Adotech from Fotoimpex Germany, now pretty much the only direct supplier of the film.

Check this thread:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom