Adox CMS 20 II Processing

Discussion in '[Partner] ADOX' started by cconnaker, Oct 18, 2016.

  1. cconnaker

    cconnaker Member

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    Hi Guys - I want to shoot some Adox CMS 20 II, but don't do any processing myself. Are there any labs that will correctly process Adox CMS 20 II in the right chemicals?
     
  2. Pioneer

    Pioneer Subscriber

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    I do my own but you may try calling a few to see. Try Blue Moon in Seattle and see if they can help.
     
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    cconnaker

    cconnaker Member

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    Thanks.
     
  4. Leigh B

    Leigh B Member

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    Hi Pioneer,

    Are you using ADOTECH II or ADOTECH III developer?

    Do you shoot at ASA 12 or 16 or 20?

    Any issues or comments regarding the products or processing?

    - Leigh
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  5. Theo Sulphate

    Theo Sulphate Subscriber

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    Blue Moon (Portland, Ore.) will do it, but you have to buy the developer (*), as they don't use it for their daily processing of customer films.

    It'd make sense to send them multiple Adox 20 rolls in that situation.

    (*) that is, they do stock the Adox developer - but you would have to buy it and pay for them to use it to process your rolls.
     
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    cconnaker

    cconnaker Member

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    Thanks very much for the info.
     
  7. flavio81

    flavio81 Member

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    I know this is not the answer you want, but for processing yourself you don't even need a darkroom, just a changing bag, a developing (daylight) tank, and a thermometer. This is all inexpensive, and the process is really simple. With films like ADOX CMS 20 you would want to control the resulting contrast, and it's much better if you do it yourself.

    Also, you can also develop only small strips of film to test what you're getting at a certain ISO, before deciding to shoot an entire roll.
     
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    cconnaker

    cconnaker Member

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    Thanks for the comments. Are there any threads or resources here on APUG for beginners with respect to processing film at home? A step-by-step guide would be awesome or even a shopping cart style list of things I need to purchase would be great (with affiliate percentage going to APUG).
     
  9. Andrew O'Neill

    Andrew O'Neill Subscriber

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    There are tutorials on youtube...
     
  10. flavio81

    flavio81 Member

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    Here you are:

    www.ilfordphoto.com/webfiles/200629163442455.pdf

    Shopping list:

    * Thermometer (any thermometer that can read from about 10°C to 40°C with precision of 1°C and that has fast response is good). I use a long glass thermomether that I bought in a cooking supplies store, known as "thermometer for chocolate making" (!), it was really cheap and excellent, costed me about USD 10.

    * Film developing tank -- most of them are plastic tanks in which you load the film into a plastic spool, place the spool inside the tank and close the tank. These are good enough and easy to use. Should cost about USD 40.

    * Changing bag, you need a changing bag big enough so you can fit the tank inside the bag. Mine is about 50x70cm in size, which I find big enough. Those are cheap as well.

    then you need chemicals:
    * Developer: In this case ADOTECH, but for your first time please try a liquid developer because they are easier to mix. For example I can recommend Tetenal Ultrafin (liquid), or perhaps Ilford DD-X.

    * Stop bath: You can buy stop bath liquid or you can use vinegar as stop bath (search the web)

    * Fixer: Typical fixer (any fixer works)

    * Optional: rinsing aid like Ilford "Ilfotol". This is basically a kind of detergent that makes the film dry quickly and without any spots.

    then you need simple supplies:

    * bottles to store the chemicals, the development tank uses usually about 400mL for each roll of film loaded into it, so usually 1L bottles are of enough capacity. Choose bottles with a very wide "mouth" so you don't need funnels.
    3 bottles are enough: one for dev, other for stop bath, other for fixer. Label them!

    * a measuring cup for the developer, one that can measure up to 1L is fine.

    * something to measure the (concentrate, liquid) developer. I use a syringe, so i can easily measure 30mL with precision. Or you can use small measuring cups, etc.

    the rest is really easy; prepare the working solution, for example Ilford DD-X dissolves 1:9 which means, for example, 100mL of concentrated developer + 900mL of water to prepare a 1L "working solution" that is used for developer.

    Stop bath you can prepare and leave it in the bottle until you need it, same for fixer.

    Then follow the instructions on the Ilford PDF!!

    Once you get nicely developed FP4 film with your regular developer, you can now use Adotech on CMS 20 II. Of course, reading the instructions from ADOX!!
     
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    cconnaker

    cconnaker Member

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    Thanks so much!
     
  12. flavio81

    flavio81 Member

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    PS: Regarding the Ilford PDF step by step guide

    * The PDF guide above tells you to use Ilford ILFOSTOP; in practice any stop bath will do, from any brand; even stop bath made by yourself using vinegar or from citric acid.

    * Any fixer will work, "rapid" or not.

    * Any wetting agent (intended for film) will work, Ilford Ilfotol, Foma Fotonal, Kodak Photoflo, etc.

    * For mantaining correct temperature the easiest way is to simply use developer that has "adapted" to room temperature (by letting it sit for some time) and then measure the tempeature of the developer. In my house it is about 20°C. If it is lower or higher you just compensate (by changing development time) using the table supplied by Ilford on the PDF. Lower than 18°C is not recommended, as far as i know, btw.


    Processing film is very easy and the experience of seeing how the film comes out of the tank, developed, is addictive!

    Enlarging (making prints) is more difficult altoghether, because of the need for a darkroom, enlarger, etc etc.
     
  13. flavio81

    flavio81 Member

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    PPS:

    * if you worry about temperature control, on aquarium supplies stores you can buy the temperature control devices that keep fish happy inside the fishbowl.

    The most difficult parts are:
    - learning to load the film in the film reel (just practice on open daylight using a film cartridge you can waste)
    This is then done inside the changing bag (you can't look inside), so practice first.
    - getting the film leader out of the cartridge (easiest solution: when rewinding the film on the camera, leave the leader out!). There are also inexpensive tools for taking the leader out of the cartridge, you can buy them as well.

    The most critical part is:
    - The development time (time it), temperature (get it within 1°C or even 2°C and you'll be just fine), agitation (pick an agitation method and be consistent, for example 1 inversion each minute. Each developer has instructions on the preferred agitation)
    - Remember, development is influenced by temperature, time, and agitation, so if you have all these 3 done consistently from roll to roll, you'll have consistent results

    Typical mistake is:
    - Not enough fixer time. Which is easily solved by just putting the film again into the fixer and letting it sit for more minutes until the film "clears", that is, the film base looks light grey or transparent (depending on the film).

    Sorry for using metric measurements, in my part of the world we use such system.
     
  14. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

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  15. flavio81

    flavio81 Member

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    Last post, i swear! This is what happens when processing film, in a nutshell:

    1. Development: The developer turns the exposed parts of the negative to metallic (black) silver, while the non exposed parts of the negative remain as silver halides (the "grey" surface you see on unexposed film).

    2. Stop bath: Stop bath just "stops" development. That is, any developer that was left around the tank will be neutralized by the stop bath. Stop bath is acid while developer is alkaline; thus it neutralizes.

    3. Fixer: Fixer removes the "non exposed parts", that is, the silver halides that were undeveloped. It also makes the film base turn clear.

    4. Wash: You wash the film to remove all traces of fixer, which is important otherwise, years later, film can get damaged over time due to the remains of fixer in it. You can also use a "hypo removal"/"hypo clear" chemical (for example, Tetenal Lavaquick) which will basically clear all remaining traces of fixer. Fixer is also known as "hypo" which is slang for "sodium thiosulfate" ("hyposulphite of soda"), which is the main component (or only component!) of fixer solutions.

    6. Wetting agent: It just lowers the surface tension of water, so the water "runs down" like a cascade when you hang out the film to dry.

    Paper (photographic paper) development is exactly the same steps.

    BTW, Reversal black and white processing is similar! But it introduces extra steps between (2) and (3) in which:
    1. the metallic (black) silver is removed (this is "bleaching" using a specific "bleach" for this purpose),
    2. the unexposed (grey) silver halides are re-exposed... by aiming the film to a powerful light bulb!!
    3. such silver halides, now exposed, are re-developed so they turn into metallic (black) silver... by developing again!
    This produces black and white slides (positives) !

    Developing color negative (C41) film is similar but with different, specific chemicals; including a "color developer" which produces the color image by some sort of magic only certain people understand fully.

    If you can do B/W neg development correctly then you can do color slide (E6) too, because the steps are not so many!
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  16. Leigh B

    Leigh B Member

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    If temperature control is an issue, use Diafine developer.
    It works exactly the same at any temperature from 70°F to 85°F (21°C to 29°C).

    It's a two-bath developer. You put the film in Part A for 3 to 5 minutes, then in Part B for 3 to 5 minutes.
    The exact amount of time is not critical between those limits.

    Do not drain or wash the film between the two development steps.

    Diafine produces excellent high-quality negatives with any film.
    It's particularly well-suited to fine grain films.

    It is provided in powdered form in two small cans.
    Mix those to provide working stock, which gets returned to the storage bottles after each use.

    Replenishment is quite simple. I can provide details if desired.

    - Leigh
     
  17. Pioneer

    Pioneer Subscriber

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    I do shoot CMS 20 quite frequently. I expose it at EI12 and develop for 8.5 minutes in Ilfotech II. I like how it turns out and the detail is actually quite amazing in 135. I also use it 120 roll film but I don't find it quite as amazing, maybe because I already love how most 120 roll film turns out anyway. For example, I am not a big fan of Tri-X in 135, but I love it in 120 and sheet film.

    I still use Ilfotech II as I still have some from the batch I bought a little over a year ago. I think I have enough left for about 10 rolls of 135 so I will be needing some more pretty soon. It is nice to know that Blue Moon has it available, or at least can get it. Both BHPhoto and Freestyle were out when I checked on it a bit ago.

    I will be trying some of the 120 in Diafine as I have some mixed up. If it works I may not need to move to Ilfotech III. That will certainly save a few pennies anyway.

    I am also keen to try it in 4x5 film. As much detail as it produces in 135 it has to be an absolutely awesome film in 4x5.
     
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