Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
Here endith this thread.
I don't own it, but some threads have very specific purpose, as this one has. ADOX generously comes back with quite detailed response on the matter, but that was still not good enough to figure it may perhaps be left alone and not taken in a squarely unintended direction.
Yes this is almost inevitable and often but not always can be useful. Here the dialogue was exclusively on the subject until #11 when effectively it had finished for the OP with a satisfactory answer from ADOX as far as he was concerned and whose attention to the OP's needs was admirable so I am puzzled as to why he had a problem when it began to drift as he had his answer and was already satisfied.sometimes threads take on a life and direction of their own, it's called "thread drift"
As if Mirko didn't already know that there's demand for 120 ADOX film.
Why, is it that bad as a food that users need to be told not to do this?Just don't bring up pizza.
.
Just don't bring up pizza.
(that is a reference to another thread that hasn't drifted - it has set sail!).
Film prices today are at about the same level than in the 80ies if you factor in inflation but costs per piece are much higher than they were back then when we made hundreds of millions of pieces. As a manufacturer we are still counting pennies per roll in profit. And this only if all goes well and no mistakes occur. We are all using equipment built more than 20 years ago, often 40 years ago and sometimes 60+ years ago by letting it simply run. Else it would not be possible to offer film at such low prices. This however means in the counter conclusion that whenever a pice of equipment breaks it is (often) not financially feasable to repair it (not technologically) and the respective product simply gets canceled. The same is true if we have to substitute a chemical in an emulsion recipe. Our 120 spooling machine broke four years ago and we suddenly had to slit all materials ourselves due to market consolidation. An whilst we are aware that there is demand for 120 films still the costs of fixing it will (alyways) outrun any possible profit which we might (ever) make by manufacturing and selling 120 film @ 5-10 cents above costs. This is why we do not offer 120 film or other players does not supply enough consumer color film at present.
Still we at ADOX have great passion and we want to be able to manufacture 120 film in the future again. Therefore we invest all profits which we make in the FOTOIMPEX group to address such issues. But those profits must be earned before and then they can be "sacrificed" on projects like this. So the profitability of FOTOIMPEX is defining the investments we can undertake @ ADOX. Corona and the closure of the shop in Berlin by German officials without any compensation for medium sized businesses surely did not help in this respect. Since this summer we started again to work on "the beast" and we did progress a bit. We will also have another engineer on the team from mid November on. So we are moving and definitely faster now as well.
I'm vegan and find it highly offensive.
Isn't there a little conflict
As an omnivore, I don't have a conflict. I was just asking.
Thank you very much for the honest assessment, it is very much appreciated. I know I'm not alone wishing you well and looking forward to someday getting CHS100 in 120 again. Best to everyone at Adox.No, there is not.
That is the honest answer. We are working on it, but we cannot give a reliable assessment about the timeline. ....
Making/confectioning sheet film is far less complex and profits are higher. It is mainly 120 that has become pain in the neck. Hopefully there is a long term solution to this problem and the tunnel is not that long before we see daylight again.I used my last sheets of CHS 100 while munching on a burger. It was delicious. Had to wash my hands before developing the film.... We all need to get used to the idea that film photography may be much more expensive in the future due to supply and demand realities. Pennies a roll in profit is not sustainable.
I'm happy to say we've also sold many of those old SLRs to college kids who want to explore the world beyond Holgas.
No, there is not.
That is the honest answer. We are working on it, but we cannot give a reliable assessment about the timeline. As producing 120 film is really extremely complex, difficult and on a very high technology level. Especially if you want to offer very high quality, which is our aim.
Lots has changed in the last years in the industry in the supply chain. We have to do much much more in-house by our own now. And that is very challenging for a very small and kind of "start-up" company like we are.
And the pandemic has caused lots of new problems and challenges.
ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.
And to replicate those machines now, in a form that would work with modern films, and available backing paper, at production volumes that would permit making a profit, will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.The film manufacturers were able to make roll film in the 1900 to 1930 range without a huge amount of problems. The mechanical complexity is there, but those machines WORKED well without a single bit of electronics.
modern film is better, modern paper is better.And to replicate those machines now, in a form that would work with modern films, and available backing paper, at production volumes that would permit making a profit, will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I have to say the simplicity of your logic cannot explain complexity of the problem.modern film is better, modern paper is better.
Think of it this way, if a company can get the waxy paper to cover a roll of toilet paper, they can get the paper to do the ends on a 220 roll
The film manufacturers were able to make roll film in the 1900 to 1930 range without a huge amount of problems. The mechanical complexity is there, but those machines WORKED well without a single bit of electronics.
modern film is better, modern paper is better.
Think of it this way, if a company can get the waxy paper to cover a roll of toilet paper, they can get the paper to do the ends on a 220 roll
This entire naive rant displays an incredible lack of thought. Did you become a PHOTRIO member to trash ADOX while photographing with your DSLR? How many DSLR units were sold to cover the development costs of those cameras? How much capital was available to Canikon for funding that development?To play devils advocate, and to put the whole specter of the complexity of making spooled rolls of film into perspective.
The film manufacturers were able to make roll film in the 1900 to 1930 range without a huge amount of problems. The mechanical complexity is there, but those machines WORKED well without a single bit of electronics.
SO just how are we expected to believe that your 120 machines are being held together with chicken wire an bubble gum wrappers, and held up by electronics...
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