Adox Atomal 49 - in relation to other developers?

[Tom Kershaw]

Browsing adox.de I noticed: http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-film-developer/atomal-49/ - where does this product sit in relation to D-76 or Microphen etc? The description makes it sound more like Perceptol but with higher film speed. I'm happy with XTOL at the moment but intrigued non-the-less.

Tom

 

[trendland]

Browsing adox.de I noticed: http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-film-developer/atomal-49/ - where does this product sit in relation to D-76 or Microphen etc? The description makes it sound more like Perceptol but with higher film speed. I'm happy with XTOL at the moment but intrigued non-the-less.

Tom

Tom - the name with 49 inside is telling me somethink. Just from remind (but I may be wrong) it has to be a metol based developer. (Perceptol/Microdol x Derivate)

That would mean a "finest grain developer" you have a lost of ~ 1 stop and the contrast comes a little soft what is the price for outstanding finest grain and resolution (not so good for pushing Hp5)

D76 and microfen are for use with all kind of films!

with regards

 

[koraks]

Tom - the name with 49 inside is telling me somethink. Just from remind (but I may be wrong) it has to be a metol based developer.

Apparently it's a HQ/PPD formula.

 

[trendland]

Browsing adox.de I noticed: http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-film-developer/atomal-49/ - where does this product sit in relation to D-76 or Microphen etc? The description makes it sound more like Perceptol but with higher film speed. I'm happy with XTOL at the moment but intrigued non-the-less.

Tom

OK I remember I mixed it also in the past sometimes. Then - like Koraks stated it is based on Agfa
Atomal. I have some kilo of that stuff at home (perhaps Atomal FF) what ever!
So it is more a developer for sharp results (edge effects) not so grainy in comparison to Rodinal.
I guess it would not come close to characteristics of your XTol!
The alternates : - Rodinal
- Neofin blue
of course - D76/ID11

But Xtol is a kind of developer with very best characteristics if you want to go into this direction.

with regards

 

[trendland]

Apparently it's a HQ/PPD formula.

For sure with PPD koraks?


with regards

 

[koraks]

The MSDS lists a phenylenediamine derivative.

 

[trendland]

The MSDS lists a phenylenediamine derivative.

Aha - yes that sounds in a way I expected. All other options would make me wonder?
But it is a real nice agend . In combination with metol.But today it isn't in use anylonger!

with regards

 

[Rudeofus]

Here is a page comparing different developers for different films. The Atomal result for Delta 3200 looks truly impressive, although sadly they have no XTol sample for this film.

 

[removedacct1]

Tom,
I have been using BER49 by Bergger, which is the same developer as Atomal49, repackaged as a Bergger product. I use it with Bergger's own Pancro400 film in particular.

I've been skeptical about trying the BER49 developer, because I figured that Bergger's statement that BER49 gives superior results with their film was likely hype more than factual. However, I decided last year to find out for myself and acquired a package of it. In an effort to be more scientific about making an assessment, back in October I did a test where I shot one image repeatedly on a roll of 120 film, using my Minolta Autocord (sharpest lens I have in 120 cameras), with every frame the exact same exposure.

I then cut the roll of film into four equal pieces and processed each piece in a different developer. I used D-76, Rodinal, BER49 and Pyro PMK. The most notable difference* to be seen was between the clip processed in BER49 (on the left side of the photo linked) and the Rodinal 1:25 (on the right). You can see how harsh the Rodinal grain effect is - a developer that claims to produce "superior acutance", but when compared to the BER49 sample on the left, its no sharper, and in fact, the impression of sharpness is degraded because of the coarse nature of the grain.

The BER49 negative on the left has softer grain (BER49 is a solvent type developer) but appears to have superior acutance because the rendering of the brighter values is significantly better, giving the impression of greater detail. For me, the BER49 negative renders many of the values in a much more realistic way, and the effect is a much more tactile image. The shape of the twigs and the leaf surfaces is much more delicate and nuanced, whereas in the Rodinal negative, the values are compromised by the hard grain effect. The BER49 negative tells you much more about the quality of light and the textures of the subject matter, where the Rodinal negative degrades these virtues.

I suggest you take a closer look at a larger version of this image to see more clearly what I am talking about: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7906/33346601438_8135339d8a_o.jpg

*I should add that the D-76 negative was close to the Rodinal negative in terms of harsh grain and lack of subtlety in the higher values. The BER49 and PMK negs were very VERY similar in overall character.

You can see the full image here, to glean how much of a crop the comparison sample is: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7819/33346811688_c4ae2e8f4e_o.jpg

 

[Alan Johnson]

Atomal contains p-phenylenediamine derivative, some discussion of these starts on p 461:
https://archive.org/details/TheTheoryOfThePhotographicProcess/page/n461

 

[Rudeofus]

In older books PPD is often used as the sole developing agent. It sort of inhibits itself and thereby yields low contrast, significant speed loss and very fine grain. Atomal 49 uses a secondary developing agent (Hydroquinone) in order to get normal contrast and full speed while retaining some of the fine grain property. It is a completely different animal compared to the PPD only developers described in "The Theory of the Photographic Process".

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Browsing adox.de I noticed: http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-film-developer/atomal-49/ - where does this product sit in relation to D-76 or Microphen etc? The description makes it sound more like Perceptol but with higher film speed. I'm happy with XTOL at the moment but intrigued non-the-less.

Tom

if you're happy with Xtol stick with it.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

In case anyone is itching to brew Atomal yourself, here's a discussion on its formula:
https://www.flickr.com/groups/49958431@N00/discuss/72157624848978747/

Good luck.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Tom,
I have been using BER49 by Bergger, which is the same developer as Atomal49, repackaged as a Bergger product. I use it with Bergger's own Pancro400 film in particular.

*I should add that the D-76 negative was close to the Rodinal negative in terms of harsh grain and lack of subtlety in the higher values. The BER49 and PMK negs were very VERY similar in overall character.

Do the BER49 negatives exhibit proportional stain like the PMK negatives would? The Flickr link given above suggests the Atomal 49 formula contains Pyrocatechin.

 

[Anon Ymous]

If BER49 is more or less Atomal 49, then it contains too much Sodium Sulfite and it will inhibit staining.

 

[koraks]

The Atomal 49 MSDS does not list pyrocatechol or pyrogallol. The only staining agent present is hydroquinone and the sulfite level is too high to produce stain with this compound.

 

[dE fENDER]

The Atomal 49 MSDS does not list pyrocatechol or pyrogallol. The only staining agent present is hydroquinone and the sulfite level is too high to produce stain with this compound.

HQ in modern A49 with CD-1 will act as colour coupler of phenolic type. This reaction will not depend on sulfite level, although not a priority.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

The Atomal 49 MSDS does not list pyrocatechol or pyrogallol. The only staining agent present is hydroquinone and the sulfite level is too high to produce stain with this compound.

Perhaps Adox Atomal 49 isn't the same developer as Agfa Atomal. Gerry Koch in a previous thread on Atomal gave the following formula for Agfa Atomal:

Atomal

Distilled water (50°C) …………………………………………… 750 ml
Hydroxyethyl-o-aminophenol sulfate …………… 6.0 g
Catechol ……………………………………………………………………………… 10.0 g
Hydroquinone ……………………………………………………………………… 4.0 g
Sodium sulfite (anhy) ……………………………………………… 100 g
Sodium carbonate (anhy) ………………………………………… 25.0 g
Potassium bromide ………………………………………………………… 1.0 g
Sodium metaphosphate ………………………………………………… 1.0 g
Distilled water to make ………………………………………… 1.0 l

Since HEAP is no longer available I would suggest subtituting Metol which is chemically similar. Since the molecular weight of these two developing agents and their activity are different some adjustment in the amount would have to be made.

This is the same formula discussed in the flickr thread.

 

[removedacct1]

Do the BER49 negatives exhibit proportional stain like the PMK negatives would? The Flickr link given above suggests the Atomal 49 formula contains Pyrocatechin.

It does not. And you’re welcome.

 

[lantau]

Perhaps Adox Atomal 49 isn't the same developer as Agfa Atomal. Gerry Koch in a previous thread on Atomal gave the following formula for Agfa Atomal:



This is the same formula discussed in the flickr thread.

That must be the old Atomal up to the 1970s. I read about it somewhere else a good while ago. I remember that apparently it was very good. Compensating, fine grain, high sharpness. The claim was that HEAP (the aminophenol) wasn't made anymore after being discontinued as a softener in plastics.

With the claim being that Adox Atomal 49 (an Orwo recipe?) is a bit soft I never tried it. I'll stay with D76 as a fine enough grain developer.

 

[dE fENDER]

Perhaps Adox Atomal 49 isn't the same developer as Agfa Atomal.

Of course, it isn't. Adox Atomal 49 is a distant descendant of Agfa Atomal-F, which is close relative to M&B Promicrol.
About 1949 year M&B pushished some research about effectiveness HEAP-developers in patent:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/pub...KC=A&FT=D&ND=5&date=19501004&DB=&locale=en_EP

The most effective developer composition from this patent became the base of group of similar compositions, amongs them are Agfa Atomal-F and USSR Orthomicrol. And M&B promicrol, of course. The key components where HEAP and glycin. One of the Orwo A-49 of that time had been published in the book (p91)
https://ia800603.us.archive.org/6/items/volgin1993/Волгин - Фотография 1000 рецептов (1993).pdf

About to 1980th the composition for some reason had changed: HEAP had been replaced with metol, but glycin have been left unchanged. One of the ORWO A-49 variation of this period published (Gurlev, 1988, Processing of the photography materials (rus only)) :
Metol - 6g
Sulfite - 100g
Glycin - 1,2g
Sodium carbonate - 10 g
Potassium Bromide - 0,5 g
water - till 1 l

And the CD-1 variation had been published at the end of 1980th. Glycin replaced by hq. Calbe A-49, almost modern version:
CD-1 - 5g
Hydroquinone - 3g
Sodium sulfite - 100g
Sodium tetraborate - 5g
Boric acid - 1,5g
Potassium bromide - 0,5g

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

That must be the old Atomal up to the 1970s. I read about it somewhere else a good while ago. I remember that apparently it was very good. Compensating, fine grain, high sharpness. The claim was that HEAP (the aminophenol) wasn't made anymore after being discontinued as a softener in plastics.

Fotohuis (Robert) announced on some forums that an alternative to HEAP was synthesised to be used as its replacement in Atomal formula. See https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/22741646983.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

One of the ORWO A-49 variation of this period published (Gurlev, 1988, Processing of the photography materials (rus only)) :
Metol - 6g
Sulfite - 100g
Glycin - 1,2g
Sodium carbonate - 10 g
Potassium Bromide - 0,5 g
water - till 1 l

Interesting formulation. TFS. Have you tried this?

 

[Rudeofus]

HQ in modern A49 with CD-1 will act as colour coupler of phenolic type.

Tne coupling reaction of PPDox+HQ is very weak and slow, because the one group supposed to fall off is very electronegative. Much rather will HQ reduce oxidized CD-1 back to its original form.

 

[dE fENDER]

Interesting formulation. TFS. Have you tried this?

No, only selfmade with CD-1 and old original Agfa Atomal-F/Orwo A49 (+ modern). Nothing magical.