Adox Atomal 49 - in relation to other developers?

[dE fENDER]

Tne coupling reaction of PPDox+HQ is very weak and slow, because the one group supposed to fall off is very electronegative. Much rather will HQ reduce oxidized CD-1 back to its original form.

You are right, but if you check cd-1+HQ developer on the paper and then bleach the silver - you will get a well visible brown image. In term of brightness, it will be only slightly lower than obtained with this developer w/o HQ and with alpha-naphtol instead.

 

[Rudeofus]

You are right, but if you check cd-1+HQ developer on the paper and then bleach the silver - you will get a well visible brown image. In term of brightness, it will be only slightly lower than obtained with this developer w/o HQ and with alpha-naphtol instead.

Do you also get this brown residue if you fix with KSCN fixer?

 

[dE fENDER]

Do you also get this brown residue if you fix with KSCN fixer?

Didn't try, but perhaps I will check it somehow. I especially used alkaline fixer, case the literature tells than even usual acid fixer will destroy such weak dyes.

 

[Rudeofus]

The biggest problem with Thiosulfate is that it forms Silver Sulfide with metallic silver. This is most likely what you see as brown residue, in fact you get this with any developer and any thiosulfate based fixer.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

One of the Orwo A-49 of that time had been published in the book (p91)
https://ia800603.us.archive.org/6/items/volgin1993/Волгин - Фотография 1000 рецептов (1993).pdf

@dE fENDER: I was looking at page 91 of the PDF file whose link you shared. I'm not very familiar with Russian script but it seems that one of the ingredients of Orwo A-49 is Atomal! What is this Atomal? Is it another name for HEAP?

 

[Rudeofus]

@dE fENDER: I was looking at page 91 of the PDF file whose link you shared. I'm not very familiar with Russian script but it seems that one of the ingredients of Orwo A-49 is Atomal! What is this Atomal? Is it another name for HEAP?

Gerald Koch confirms this in posting 8 of this thread.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Interesting! Is it a case of developer getting its name because of a prominent component or the component getting its name from the developer?

 

[Team ADOX]

Browsing adox.de I noticed: http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-film-developer/atomal-49/ - where does this product sit in relation to D-76 or Microphen etc? The description makes it sound more like Perceptol but with higher film speed. I'm happy with XTOL at the moment but intrigued non-the-less.

Tom

Hi Tom,
concerning developers we have the "magic triangle": Speed, fineness of grain, sharpness. Because of physical limitations it is only possible to optimise a developer for 1-2 of these 3 parameters, and with the remaining 1-2 you have to made compromises. It is impossible to make the "perfect" developer which is optimised for all three parameters at the same time.
In this "magic triangle" ADOX Atomal 49 is optimised for speed (optimal shadow detail) and fineness of grain. And the (in this case small) compromise is sharpness (but sharpness is still a bit better compared to other fine grain high speed developers). Sharpness can also be a bit improved by using 1+1 or 1+2 solution instead of stock solution.
Atomal is a very good compensating developer, too. The compensating effect can also be increased by using 1+1 or 1+2 dilution. And because of its very high speed it is also well suited for push processing of 1 or 2 stops.
By the way, ADOX Atomal 49 is the standard developer in our professional Fotoimpex BW lab for years. Because of its very good "all-round" capabilities.

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

 

[miha]

Mirko, the keeping quality as per your site is rather short - up to 6 weeks as opposed to 6 months as it is the case with some of the competitors' products. Can you comment on that?

 

[baachitraka]

and that gives a chance to mix it fresh...

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Mirko, the keeping quality as per your site is rather short - up to 6 weeks as opposed to 6 months as it is the case with some of the competitors' products. Can you comment on that?

I'm not sure about keeping my XTOL stock for 6 months but it certainly keeps for longer than 6 weeks.

 

[MattKing]

I'm not sure about keeping my XTOL stock for 6 months but it certainly keeps for longer than 6 weeks.

Kodak says 6 months for XTOL stock. I'm at 12.5 months for my XTOL working solution right now, and have seen no problems.

 

[miha]

I'm not sure about keeping my XTOL stock for 6 months but it certainly keeps for longer than 6 weeks.

No present experience with Xtol however D76 kept well for over a year when I last mixed it.

 

[Martin Rickards]

Of course, it isn't. Adox Atomal 49 is a distant descendant of Agfa Atomal-F, which is close relative to M&B Promicrol.
About 1949 year M&B pushished some research about effectiveness HEAP-developers in patent:

...

I used M&B Promicrol way back in the 70's when I worked at M&B. Using Ilford FP4 rated at 200 ASA, it produced very good negatives. HEAP sulphate then became unobtainable due to carcinogenicity concerns and that was that.

 

[subsole]

Mirko, the keeping quality as per your site is rather short - up to 6 weeks as opposed to 6 months as it is the case with some of the competitors' products. Can you comment on that?[/QUOT

I keep Atomal in fully filled 100ml bottles. Works still fine after 6 months of storage. Will probably keep even longer.
I'm using distilled (or deionized) water for mixing the powders.

 

[Team ADOX]

Mirko, the keeping quality as per your site is rather short - up to 6 weeks as opposed to 6 months as it is the case with some of the competitors' products. Can you comment on that?

The Atomal powder in unopened, original packaging has a shelf life of at least 3 years if properly stored (dry). It is best practice to mix the stock solution just when you have some films exposed, which needed to be developed.
We are always very conservative and cautious with the shelf life data. We want the customer to be on the safe side. And as a manufacturer you have no influence on the storing conditions of the customers at their homes.
If you store the chemistry with care under optimal conditions, the shelf life can be significantly longer. Storing stock solution in completely full, brown/dark glass bottles, at a dry and dark places with a temperature in the range of 10 to max. 25°C is ideal and highly recommended. Under these conditions the shelf life of the stock solution will be extended. Using destilled or deionized water for mixing the stock solution can also help (especially if your local tap water quality is not so good).
It makes sense to make a little shelf life test at your home with your storing conditions: Keep a certain amount of stock solution for that test, store that under the recommended conditions (see above) and use it after 3, 4 and / or 6 months. Then you know whether it works under your individual storing conditions. We have lots of customers who have done that. They have experienced a longer shelf life and now know how much longer it is under their individual storing conditions at their homes.

By the way, Fotoimpex has new brown glass bottles on offer which are perfect for storing developers (stock solution and concentrate) and photo chemistry in general:
https://www.fotoimpex.com/darkroom/fotoimpex-apothekerflasche-glas-weithals-braun-1000-ml.html

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

 

[miha]

Thanks for sharing your experience Bundesphotograph.

 

[miha]

The Atomal powder in unopened, original packaging has a shelf life of at least 3 years if properly stored (dry). It is best practice to mix the stock solution just when you have some films exposed, which needed to be developed.
We are always very conservative and cautious with the shelf life data. We want the customer to be on the safe side. And as a manufacturer you have no influence on the storing conditions of the customers at their homes.
If you store the chemistry with care under optimal conditions, the shelf life can be significantly longer. Storing stock solution in completely full, brown/dark glass bottles, at a dry and dark places with a temperature in the range of 10 to max. 25°C is ideal and highly recommended. Under these conditions the shelf life of the stock solution will be extended. Using destilled or deionized water for mixing the stock solution can also help (especially if your local tap water quality is not so good).
It makes sense to make a little shelf life test at your home with your storing conditions: Keep a certain amount of stock solution for that test, store that under the recommended conditions (see above) and use it after 3, 4 and / or 6 months. Then you know whether it works under your individual storing conditions. We have lots of customers who have done that. They have experienced a longer shelf life and now know how much longer it is under their individual storing conditions at their homes.

By the way, Fotoimpex has new brown glass bottles on offer which are perfect for storing developers (stock solution and concentrate) and photo chemistry in general:
https://www.fotoimpex.com/darkroom/fotoimpex-apothekerflasche-glas-weithals-braun-1000-ml.html

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

Thank you. I usually mix just before use, but 5 litre especially when used at 1+1 cannot be used at once, at least not in my case (yes I know there are 1 litre packages available but the price difference...).

 

[Trask]

Team Adox — looking at the listing for the glass bottles, the photo seems to show two different sizes, but only the one for 1000ml is listed. Is a smaller size available? And the stopper — is it glass only, so a glass-on-glass friction fit into the bottle neck, or does the stopper have a rubber or plastic surface?

 

[Team ADOX]

Team Adox — looking at the listing for the glass bottles, the photo seems to show two different sizes, but only the one for 1000ml is listed. Is a smaller size available? And the stopper — is it glass only, so a glass-on-glass friction fit into the bottle neck, or does the stopper have a rubber or plastic surface?

Hi,
there are currently three different sizes available: 500ml, 1000ml and 2000ml.
https://www.fotoimpex.com/darkroom/storage-bottles/
The stopper: It is cone-shaped, and it is a glass-on-glass friction (with a special rough surface), fitting into the cone-shaped bottle neck.

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

 

[removedacct1]

I have used Atomal 49 for up to 8 months from mix date, sometimes from a 1/3 full gallon brown jug. Yesterday I used some D-76 I made in October, also stored in a gallon jug, half full. Today I used some Xtol from a 1/4 full gallon bottle, mixed in December 2018. It worked fine.
As the Adox people have stated, it matters how you store your chemistry: what temperatures, etc. My stuff - for the better part of the year - is stored at temps below 65F, and everything is made with RO-purified water (between 3 and 6 ppm tds). I've come to the conclusion that chemistry lasts longer than the manufacturer states if you make developers with clean water and keep things stored cool.