ADOBE sued, finally

abruzzi · Jun 22, 2024

MattKing said:
So as an existing subscriber for two software products, they are charging you less (~1/2) than if you were to sign up as a new subscriber. Which is certainly at least some incentive to stay with them.

actually this is likely adobe doing some test pricing. I looked into buying the $10/mo plan a number of years ago. People online reccomended it. I went to Adobe and it was $20/mo. I asked and other people said that when they went to the Adobe website it said $10. But for me, it was $20, though other people online swore up and down the site said $10. So I turned on private mode on Safari and it was still $20. I fired up Chrome, in normal mode it said $20 and in private mode it said $10. Firefox gave me $10 for both normal and private mode (I guess Firefox is for cheapskates.) Every price came from the exact same URL. So Adobe frequenlty does these type of pricing tests.

Me, I wrote Adobe off at that point, which is good, because now I cant run most of their software because other software I need has held back my OS updates. Instead I use an old outdated version of Capture One. I have no issues with Adobe or any other vendor doing what they want, but if I don't like it, I'm not going to pay for it.

TomR55 · Jun 23, 2024

MattKing said:
An ironic comment, given that Adobe has very successfully changed their business model to one based on keeping customers sufficiently happy that they are willing to continue subscribing and therefore continuing to pay money month after month/year after year.

Good observation. I think I was trying to distinguish the “weather” (a particular incident, topic, thread) from the “climate” (a generalized state of observations/events).

To the first part of your reply: I am not an Adobe customer, so I couldn’t say.

Regarding the second part of your reply: I think that in “keeping customers sufficiently happy that they are willing to continue subscribing […]” is an example of what I intended by the clause “[…] consumers whose demands they [producers] can manipulate over time.” Customers’ attitudes are fluid and are the product of individual perceptions, economic variations and producers’ messaging (advertising, Internet buzz, etc.) over time. On the other hand, quarterly earnings and market expectations are based upon measurable profits, as well as “market” messaging over time; that said, the market may be equally sensitive to messaging, but cannot easily be manipulated by the producer.

I am not suggesting, by the way, that Adobe is out of the ordinary, or that they are particularly evil. I am confident that a lot of Adobe’s success is genuinely based upon the quality of their product, but I am also asking that readers consider the “climate” in which this discussion is based, i.e., eCommerce (and perhaps business in general) has fundamentally changed its “traditional” relationship to its “customer.” Many are uncomfortable with this change—hence lots of negative commentary in this and other forums’ responses to similar topics.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 23, 2024

Adobe subscription model started in 2011-2012. Someone's paying for all their additional profits.

brbo · Jun 23, 2024

It’s usually preferred to mention what the graphs and numbers are showing…

Ivo Stunga · Jun 23, 2024

Nicely resumed in some detail from a professional photographer/ex-journalist/Crisis/PR manager perspective - mentions, for example, checkbox with opted-in (by default) "consent" to use images for AI training that went away...

MFstooges · Jun 23, 2024

Alan Edward Klein said:
Adobe subscription model started in 2011-2012. Someone's paying for all their additional profits.

Currently 95% of their revenue comes from cloud creative space a.k.a. subscriptions for PS and Acrobat. Acrobat used to be a simple document format that was impossible to alter but now the software comes with editor to manipulate document and sales pitches masked as 'recommendation' on every steps you do.

MattKing · Jun 23, 2024

MFstooges said:
Currently 95% of their revenue comes from cloud creative space a.k.a. subscriptions for PS and Acrobat. Acrobat used to be a simple document format that was impossible to alter but now the software comes with editor to manipulate document and sales pitches masked as 'recommendation' on every steps you do.

Acrobat is heavily used for industry specific applications.
For example, in British Columbia, one needs to have a full, up-to-date installation of Acrobat with built in special purpose security features in order to submit documents for registration to our Land Title Registry system.
The subscription fees for that software are substantial, and its use requires one to have current hardware.
Many of the publicly accessible and usable government related documents in British Columbia - things like application forms - are generated in "user fill" versions on government websites, and they are all in Adobe Acrobat format.
Many, many other entities use Adobe format documentation.
There is a whole commercial and business and governmental and institutional world out there that Adobe is actively servicing. The revenue from casual users of the Photo related products is a small portion of their over-all revenue.

Hassasin · Jun 23, 2024

Time for Adobe to get AT&T treatment.

MFstooges · Jun 23, 2024

Hassasin said:
Time for Adobe to get AT&T treatment.

Such as?

BradS · Jun 23, 2024

Hassasin said:
Time for Adobe to get AT&T treatment.

AT&T has spotty cell service in the San Francisco Bay Area - especially up in Marin county. Adobe have good reason to stay with Verizon.

Sal Santamaura · Jun 23, 2024

Hassasin said:
Time for Adobe to get AT&T treatment.

MFstooges said:
Such as?

That comment probably refers to the 1984 breakup of AT&T's monopoly on local telephone service. Today, I'm more inclined to celebrate the California PUC's rejection last Thursday of AT&T's application to terminate its status as "Carrier of Last Resort," thus ensuring my copper landline will continue to be functional. With its self-powered "five nines" reliability, through utility power outages short and extended. An incredibly valuable asset here in earthquake village.

MFstooges · Jun 23, 2024

Sal Santamaura said:
That comment probably refers to the 1984 breakup of AT&T's monopoly on local telephone service. Today, I'm more inclined to celebrate the California PUC's rejection last Thursday of AT&T's application to terminate its status as "Carrier of Last Resort," thus ensuring my copper landline will continue to be functional. With its self-powered "five nines" reliability, through utility power outages short and extended. An incredibly valuable asset here in earthquake village.

I had thought about that so just want to confirm. What happens is they became smaller mercury drops after break up and will regroup later through mergers and acquisitions. So from multiple carriers you are now limited to choose from three. Happens in airline too, you'll get narrower seat and nickeled and dimed for every kilograms you carry.
Anyway I am also happy their attempt to withdraw from CLR got rejected. I was so upset when receiving the notice for the hearing.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 23, 2024

brbo said:
It’s usually preferred to mention what the graphs and numbers are showing…

Sorry. The graph shows stock prices for Adobe. The red arrow is when they went to a subscription model. You can see how much it helped the company. That was a smart move on their part.

cliveh · Jun 25, 2024

RalphLambrecht said:
I fail to understand people's dislike of the subscription model. It is perfect to always be up-to-date for little $. Before, I had to purchase again every couple of years, which was more expensive and kept me out of date most of the time.

But Ralph I don't want to be up to date, I just want something I can use.

MFstooges · Jun 25, 2024

Alan Edward Klein said:
Sorry. The graph shows stock prices for Adobe. The red arrow is when they went to a subscription model. You can see how much it helped the company. That was a smart move on their part.

It's not only helping, far from that. It's their main course. You can see from their results in 2022, settling for that lawsuit is gonna be chump change for Adobe.

How Adobe make money

warden · Jun 25, 2024

MFstooges said:
It's not only helping, far from that. It's their main course. You can see from their results in 2022, settling for that lawsuit is gonna be chump change for Adobe.

How Adobe make money

All that is needed here is for the free market to do its thing, amiright? I mean, based on this thread, there must be thousands or even millions of customers that are totally fed up with the subscription service that Adobe offers currently. Sounds like a potential gold mine opportunity. Just look at that Adobe stock price graph from earlier in the thread.

I use six titles from Adobe on my subscription plan. As soon as some Silicon Valley geniuses make equivalent capability, compatibility, and reliable quality to replace those six industry leading titles for less money than Adobe charges, and on a non-subscription basis, I’ll be at the head of the line to switch and save me some coin. Sounds super easy to me. No more subscriptions!

Should I hold my breath?

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 26, 2024

MFstooges said:
It's not only helping, far from that. It's their main course. You can see from their results in 2022, settling for that lawsuit is gonna be chump change for Adobe.

How Adobe make money

Subscription models are loved by many businesses today since Adobe proved it's a huge generator of profits. (93% of their revenue). It works like boiling frogs in water or compound interest. Who would buy cell phones every three years if they had to come up with $1000? You hardly notice $28 a month. You just don't realize it at the time.

Ivo Stunga · Jun 26, 2024

And Apple fanboys normalized overpaying for a slab of materials in pocket. The rest followed and is the new normal...
And it's night and day how fast Windows 7 runs on HDD compared to W10.

There's a word for all of this: Enshittification.

MattKing · Jun 26, 2024

A subscription model is infinitely preferable if one is running a business.
Predictable expenses, with favorable tax consequences.
And the target customers are business.

Chan Tran · Jun 26, 2024

Alan Edward Klein said:
Subscription models are loved by many businesses today since Adobe proved it's a huge generator of profits. (93% of their revenue). It works like boiling frogs in water or compound interest. Who would buy cell phones every three years if they had to come up with $1000? You hardly notice $28 a month. You just don't realize it at the time.

It's easier to file the tax. If you get a perpetual license you can't claim the expense as the price you paid you must subtract the remaining value of the software at the end of the year. How much this is, is debatable.

Roger Cole · Jun 26, 2024

RalphLambrecht said:
I fail to understand people's dislike of the subscription model. It is perfect to always be up-to-date for little $. Before, I had to purchase again every couple of years, which was more expensive and kept me out of date most of the time.

Because for most of us being "up to date" just adds un-necessary confusion. The program has done all I want or need for at least a decade and a half now.

MFstooges · Jun 26, 2024

Ivo Stunga said:
And Apple fanboys normalized overpaying for a slab of materials in pocket. The rest followed and is the new normal...
And it's night and day how fast Windows 7 runs on HDD compared to W10.

There's a word for all of this: Enshittification.

Apple figured out that overcharging customers for proprietary adapters made in China is not enough so they had started to slap serial numbers on the electronic component level making it impossible for an independent shop to repair their product. And the hardware folks make sure they won't be outdone i.e. John Deere installed softwares in their tractors making it impossible for farmers to do their own repair.
It is so messed up that lawmakers have to fight for a 'right to repair'.

Chan Tran · Jun 26, 2024

MFstooges said:
Apple figured out that overcharging customers for proprietary adapters made in China is not enough so they had started to slap serial numbers on the electronic component level making it impossible for an independent shop to repair their product. And the hardware folks make sure they won't be outdone i.e. John Deere installed softwares in their tractors making it impossible for farmers to do their own repair.
It is so messed up that lawmakers have to fight for a 'right to repair'.

Are almost all Apple products made in China and not in a factory owned by Apple?

MFstooges · Jun 26, 2024

Chan Tran said:
Are almost all Apple products made in China and not in a factory owned by Apple?

I would say it's more difficult to find tech hardware manufacturer who doesn't make their products or part of it in China which I don't have problem. The practice of monopolizing and overcharging are the ones I dislike.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 26, 2024

Chan Tran said:
It's easier to file the tax. If you get a perpetual license you can't claim the expense as the price you paid you must subtract the remaining value of the software at the end of the year. How much this is, is debatable.

If the price is under $2500 you can fully write it off as an expense on Schedule C. Otherwise you have to depreciate it.

Your Guide to Claiming Software Tax Deductions in 2025 (with Examples)

Learn three methods for writing off the software you use as a self-employed worker — plus how to choose the right method for you.

www.keepertax.com

ADOBE sued, finally

abruzzi

TomR55

Alan Edward Klein

Attachments

brbo

Ivo Stunga

MFstooges

MattKing

Moderator

Hassasin

MFstooges

BradS

Sal Santamaura

MFstooges

Alan Edward Klein

cliveh

MFstooges

warden

Alan Edward Klein

Ivo Stunga

MattKing

Moderator

Chan Tran

Roger Cole

MFstooges

Chan Tran

MFstooges

Alan Edward Klein

Your Guide to Claiming Software Tax Deductions in 2025 (with Examples)

ADOBE sued, finally

Attachments

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency