Adhesive recommendation for old Leica vulcanite?

PFGS · Aug 15, 2020

I picked up a 1936 Leica IIIa off CraigsList last night, which short of a film test seems to be in basic working order. It's been a while since I had a working Barnack, so I'm looking forward to their squinty joys once again.

One issue the camera does have is that the vulcanite, though intact, is completely detached across the back and just kind of "floating." I'd like to tack it down before it can break. I know from experience how brittle it it, so I'm looking for an adhesive that I could basically inject under the edge with a fine needle - I can't really lift the edges up more than a few millimeters. I searched around a bit, but everything I found is either advice for patching, thick adhesive for a full re-skin, or otherwise unsuitable.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 15, 2020

Just get replacement for it. It is common routine for Leica RF cameras. Cost something like 29 usd and replacement is well described DIY.

PFGS · Aug 15, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
Just get replacement for it. It is common routine for Leica RF cameras. Cost something like 29 usd and replacement is well described DIY.

Thanks - I've done replacement more than once, with very satisfactory results. But on this camera, the vulcanite is 100% intact and has a great patina, the only issue is the lifting. So I'm specifically looking for an adhesive solution first.

John Will · Aug 15, 2020

I would suggest getting some disposable glue syringes and using a liquid contact adhesive. I have not tried this for a camera cover but use this method for model making projects with hard to get at areas.

PFGS · Aug 15, 2020

John Will said:
I would suggest getting some disposable glue syringes and using a liquid contact adhesive. I have not tried this for a camera cover but use this method for model making projects with hard to get at areas.

That's more the procedure I had in mind, but all the contact cements I've used involve coating both surfaces, then a drying period before mating them. I can't do that in this case, but perhaps it would be good enough considering the negligible load the cement would have to sustain?

beemermark · Aug 15, 2020

Rubber cement is the usual adhesive. Medical syringe needles come in various diameters, so maybe a large needle (which is still rather small) would work.

shutterfinger · Aug 15, 2020

DAP Weldwood Nonflammable Contact Cement https://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-Weldwood-32-fl-oz-Nonflammable-Contact-Cement-25332/100174435 is a water based contact cement. It works well to coat one side then immediately assemble and secure until it sets in 15 to 30 minutes. It will inkect with an ink cartridge refill syringe with little or no dilution. Quart is the smallest size available.
Pliobond 25 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Low-VOC-Pl...924761&hash=item2381139367:g:VvwAAOSw3Flem50d is a Ketone based contact cement that might work with a large enough needle or lift up the edge(s) and pour it in.
Both rub off easily when dry if on only one surface.

John Koehrer · Aug 15, 2020

Coating both surfaces isn't necessary for covering. Leatherette was done with a single coat because of that fact it can be too aggressive for something t
hat may need to be removed in the future if the vulcanite cracks from impact.
Leatherette can also be fragile when it's lifted to access a hidden screw or two.

StepheKoontz · Aug 15, 2020

I've found pliobond to work really well, and it's thin enough to "inject". As others have said, if you press it in place for 24 hours (use books etc), it will work fine.

AgX · Aug 15, 2020

John Koehrer said:
Coating both surfaces isn't necessary for covering. Leatherette was done with a single coat because of that fact it can be too aggressive for something t
hat may need to be removed in the future if the vulcanite cracks from impact.
Leatherette can also be fragile when it's lifted to access a hidden screw or two.

Furthermore the original ideas to coat both sides were either to gain a strong bond in short time or to use such solvent based cement at vapour tight and not dissolved materials.
In case at least one material offers diffusion of some kind to the solvent, a mounting of the materials in wet state works too, but lacking the immediate cementing effect.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 15, 2020

PFGS said:
Thanks - I've done replacement more than once, with very satisfactory results. But on this camera, the vulcanite is 100% intact and has a great patina, the only issue is the lifting. So I'm specifically looking for an adhesive solution first.

Real vulcanite never comes apart and stays. It just falls by peaces.

mshchem · Aug 16, 2020

Adhesive transfer tape. All that is applied is the adhesive. 3M sells it. It's amazing stuff. Comes on a release paper. Very high bond strength. You could apply to either surface. Dry low odor.

PFGS · Aug 16, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
Real vulcanite never comes apart and stays. It just falls by peaces.

"Never" is a long time, and there are a lot of Barnack cameras out there that have taken many different paths in their long lives - this is the seventh one whose path has included my hands. I've had a couple where the covering came off in tiny crumbs, this one's real vulcanite is coming off in one large piece, end of story.

PFGS · Aug 16, 2020

Thanks all for the ideas - I've got Weldwood here already, and Pliobond on the way ordered for a different repair. Going to order some gluing syringes and when everything is here, compare viscosity and overall handling of the two adhesives and give one a go. At least I'll have tried and in the end, if I do have to recover in some cushy leather, there are worse outcomes.

PFGS · Aug 16, 2020

mshchem said:
Adhesive transfer tape. All that is applied is the adhesive. 3M sells it. It's amazing stuff. Comes on a release paper. Very high bond strength. You could apply to either surface. Dry low odor.

This sounds like a good product but in this application there's not enough room in the gap to slide in a piece of tape.

mshchem · Aug 16, 2020

PFGS said:
This sounds like a good product but in this application there's not enough room in the gap to slide in a piece of tape.

Yeah, you need to have plenty of room. The Pliobond product has been around for a long time. Good product.

mshchem · Aug 16, 2020

Here's my 1934 Leica III. 1934 if I have a correct S/N chart.

PFGS · Aug 16, 2020

mshchem said:
Here's my 1934 Leica III. 1934 if I have a correct S/N chart.
View attachment 252454

Did you post this just to make me kick myself (again) for selling my SBOOI some time back?

The S/N chart I found says 1936 or 37 for my new IIIa. I also have a 1948 IIIc in need of shutter work, and used to have a IIIf red dial but it was so utterly pristine that I couldn't enjoy it, sold it to a collector.

mshchem · Aug 16, 2020

PFGS said:
Did you post this just to make me kick myself (again) for selling my SBOOI some time back?

The S/N chart I found says 1936 or 37 for my new IIIa. I also have a 1948 IIIc in need of shutter work, and used to have a IIIf red dial but it was so utterly pristine that I couldn't enjoy it, sold it to a collector.

A few years back I sent KEH my mint M2 with a Summilux 50 1.4. I was feeling gloomy. Boy that was one of my dumbest moves. Sounds like we have had a similar experience. I bet you got a decent price. I don't remember what I got, but now it's completely out of reach for me. I got the lovely finder for 100 bucks at a second hand junk store.

shutterfinger · Aug 16, 2020

I have repaired bellows and leather/leatherette coverings with both contact cements. I like the DAP better for its ease of cleanup, wash with water/wipe with a damp cloth but both hold equally well.
Pliobond is a trade name used by Ruscoe https://ruscoe.com/products/adhesives/

PFGS · Aug 16, 2020

mshchem said:
A few years back I sent KEH my mint M2 with a Summilux 50 1.4. I was feeling gloomy. Boy that was one of my dumbest moves. Sounds like we have had a similar experience. I bet you got a decent price. I don't remember what I got, but now it's completely out of reach for me. I got the lovely finder for 100 bucks at a second hand junk store.

I got a price that would still be decent. Can't say the same for the black M6 TTL .85 I sold around the same time, those things have simply blown up. But the truth is I wasn't really into that camera either - my dad is in his 70s and still regrets selling his MGA back when he was 17; I try to let go a little easier.

mshchem · Aug 16, 2020

PFGS said:
I got a price that would still be decent. Can't say the same for the black M6 TTL .85 I sold around the same time, those things have simply blown up. But the truth is I wasn't really into that camera either - my dad is in his 70s and still regrets selling his MGA back when he was 17; I try to let go a little easier.

Whoa, this is getting wierd, I had a 61 MGA when I was in high school. I paid $160 for it overhauled the engine, I could blow the doors off my buddy in his Triumph Spitfire. I had a chance at a 67 E type Jag. Oh well
I had a black 0.72 M6ttl and 50mm Summicron I sold, later I bought a silver 0.85 M6ttl and silver 50mm Summicron. I love the heft of the M6 in silver, the silver lens is brass so it's a chunk. I rarely use it. It attracts attention of the kids.

guangong · Aug 17, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
Just get replacement for it. It is common routine for Leica RF cameras. Cost something like 29 usd and replacement is well described DIY.

While I am like the OP and usually try to keep everything original, after reading thread (and learning a lot about adhesives), I agree with Ko.Fe., time to recover. I have one of the first 150 IIIc made after war, but had vulcanite replaced. This probably greatly reduced collector value but made camera a comfortable user.

PFGS · Aug 27, 2020

Finally got back to this, Pliobond worked perfectly, thanks for all the input.

Adhesive recommendation for old Leica vulcanite?

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