Adding the Super Angulon wide angle to the 2x3 Century - making Lens Board and Jigger

[wombat2go]

Acknowledgements:
Some search indicated that Apug member Dan- Thanks! has already done this and made some comments about it.
My thanks to Apug members for info generally and about the "jigger"

THE LENS BOARD
A lens board was required as I wanted to leave the standard lens intact with its board (Graflex Graftar f/4.5 103mm)
That lens board has an initial "AR" and the date 10-24-54 pencilled.

Previously, I have made lens boards for the 4x5 Speed, consisting of two milled plates of 6061 bolted together to form the light trap.

This time I wanted to machine the lens board from solid 6061 plate to see if it is easier.
The lathe is a South Bend 9A made in 1939.
I have added my dimensions here in case anybody wants to copy, however my dimensions are from one camera and may not work generally.

These photos show the blank ( 2.50 inch (63.50mm) square ) being trepanned on centre,
https://app.box.com/s/epn9gsznb9tli8rd2nqgi0nvfmiw77jh
then bored to 32.5 mm (~ 1.275 inch) for the " Copal -N 0.0" shutter.
https://app.box.com/s/1hbsd996wiv6608sdevdctxcyro2n3nf
Then a rebate was added to the 1/4 inch ( 6.3mm) plate so that the shutter's nut could fully engage the thread.

The outer diagonal of the lens board needed to be 3.375 inch (85.7 mm) to fit into the light trap socket of the camera.
https://app.box.com/s/0fepogc4gk8g4b3ol0g5osi0ardb733g

The corners were then draw filed to a neat radius resembling the corners of the camera's socket.

The original Graflex board was folded from Aluminum .040 inch ( 1.0 mm) thick and the fold inside height is 0.175 inch ( 4.5 mm high).

So the rear of the board was marked out by hand for a 2 mm "fold" that has to fit in the camera socket.
The reason for making it too thick initially is due to the lack of drawings here of the camera,
particularly the radii and tolerances of the light trap.
https://app.box.com/s/bautjx2ahquy66xff7sdkgx8dq2t12z6

The board was the set up in the elementary home brew X_Y mill-drill .End mill of 4.0 mm was used.
This photo shows the cutting of the groove for the camera's light trap. The corners were by the eyeball.
The 2 mm fold was progressively thinned toward 1.0 mm until by trials, the new lens board neatly pressed into the camera.
https://app.box.com/s/ace5ftgq6qiddwlo1bayn5f2wnfx51v7

Then the lens board was set up in the lathe and the front was faced from the original 1/4 inch ( 6.3mm) back to 0.173 inch ( 4.4mm)
This is to enable the lens locks to slide onto the boards and hold tightly ( I always use a screwdriver)
No photo
Finally the board was washed in detergent, wiped with acetone, masked, and the rear sprayed with Krylon Camo Ultra Flat.
https://app.box.com/s/wrug4wlyfcbhqk9mou5niegenyrw7v3s

THE "JIGGER"
This is to allow the front standard to be drawn accurately into position and squarely,for a given lens that does not have stops on the slide.
I learned about this on Apug, It took a while for me to comprehend it. So I have made one for the Super Angulon 65mm.
This one is only for wide angle lenses on the 2x3 Century.

Dimensions: ( of 1/4 inch 6061)
Width: 2.80 inch (71.0 mm) to drop between the rails
Length: 3.5 inch ( 90mm)
Slot to clear the front standard tang: centered, 3/8 inch wide by 1/4 inch deep ( ( 10 mm by 6mm)
On the outboard end of the plate is milled a slot on centre, (0.325 wide( 8.4 mm) by 1.65 inch ( 42mm) )
( see the photo for the brass bolt and knurled adjusting nut details)
https://app.box.com/s/l23vte5hqw98pvztymvsj8hmbwalupr9
https://app.box.com/s/f4mx4n06jpveooq6fksud3i8yv98hlea

THE VIEWFINDER
The viewfinders I have here , with all masks removed,
will cover about 85% of the Super Angulon 65mm as shown on the ground glass back which is 81 mm wide. (RH8 as I understand it)
So the viewfinder like that should be OK for the RH10. I have no experience yet,
https://app.box.com/s/l1k7zqcp966x6xcaoy5ygbwlepzgj8p9

THE DIFFICULTY
The 2x3 Century is too small for this lens:
As Dan Fromm reported, the rear cell does not fit, so has to be screwed in from the rear.
This is a risk of damaging the vintage lens
https://app.box.com/s/2ezxclp5tu4je2q4jd2y6vkp88okgu3i
This is no good for changing to the Super Angulon on a park bench etc.

Also the camera can not be closed with the front cell in the shutter.


TRAVEL WITH THE 2x3
Here is a photo on C41 with the 103mm lens and the RH10, in Sydney Harbour.
https://app.box.com/s/4yt9pobksv5vanl70q2w37xe1ym3gntg

https://app.box.com/s/spfmw9nje7r64m5bgfi5ej23matz7gqe

I am hoping to take the 2x3 with the SA 65mm to Australia this year.

Regards and Happy 2016!

 

[Dan Fromm]

Hey, there meandering marsupial, y'r "jigger" is cute and considerable overkill. I'm not sure you ever saw the one Fred Lustig made for me several centuries ago. See http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf, figures 27-30.

If I had to redesign mine I'd make it adjustable for width. This because even though they're supposed to be identical the space between my 2x3 Pacemaker Speed's outer bed rails is slightly wider than the space between my Century's outer bed rails.

Graflex made a "finder" for 65 mm lenses on 2x3 Graphics and for 90 mm lenses on 4x5 Graphics. Here's one http://www.ebay.com/itm/GRAFLEX-WID...0-FOR-PACEMAKER-GRAPHICS-164125-/141861372744, there are several other on offer now. Mine is not for sale and I have no financial interest in any of the ones now up on eBay. The "finder" slips into the slot in the front of the standard tubular view finder. Works well, on 2x3 sees more or less what a 65 sees..

I've never had a 65/5.6 SA. I used a 65/8 Ilex whose rear cell clears the 2x3 Pacemaker front standard, have switched to a 65/8 Fujinon SWD that also fits easily. I have two lenses whose rear cells have to be detached etc. to mount on the camera. 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon and 58/5.6 Grandagon.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[Jim Jones]

I've made Baby Graphic boards out of hardware store brass. It can be clamped in a vise and the edges bent over a piece of iron sheet clamped behind it. The corners can be bent down to form an appropriate curve. I soft soldered the corners for lack of brazing material at hand. Much easier would be a flat board made from about .040" or .050" aluminum with a light trap improvised behind it like older wooden lens boards had.

 

[wombat2go]

Thanks Dan and Jim.

I will look at 0.040 ( 1.0 mm) brass folded next time. I think I can trepann that.

The present difficulty I have now is with the Copal "N 0.0" shutter.

I can not easily slide my left hand ( even with no glove) through the strap on the left side of the camera far enough to release the shutter.

If I rotate the lens board so that the release lever is on the right hand side ( like the Graflex Graftar f/4.5 103mm Press release)
, then I can not access the f/- and shutter time settings because the Super Angulon 65mm outer cell is too large,
and the settings are obscured between the lens and the plate.

Any assistance or info about how that was handled in the old days, will be appreciated.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Um, er, ah, can you loosen the strap?

I take it you want to shoot handheld. Not what I would do, I'm not always steady enough, lose exact framing, which can be done only on the GG anyway, and sometimes get motion blur. So I nearly always shoot from tripod, usually with a cable release.

But and however, I have a 38/4.5 Biogon in Copal N0.0 (so marked) on a 2x3 Pacemaker board. The release lever is at approximately 8 o'clock, viewed from the front, and all of the scales and controls are easily visible and everything clears the lens board sliders. So I don't see y'r problem.

If you must shoot handheld, have you considered using a cable release (triggered by y'r right hand) with the shutter oriented on the board however suits you best?

Old days? What old days? The 75/5.6 SA was introduced around 1968, when the Century Graphic was on its last legs. In the old days people with Century Graphics or 2x3 Crowns used old-style w/a lenses, 4/4 double Gauss types from Wollensak (65/6.8) and EKCo (80/6.3 WF Ektars) or 65/6.8 Angulons. 75 mm wasn't an option and neither was f/5.6.

 

[mdarnton]

Century hotrodding!

I was able to buy a Mamiya Press 65mm and finder relatively cheap, and adapt them to my Century. The reason I mention it is that the Mamiya 65mm finder is, of course, exactly right. To mount it, I got an accessory hot shoe/cord adapter with a 1/4-20 hole in the bottom, and bolted it to the top of my camera, on the left. This way, I also have a hot shoe for a flash, which is a nice addition.

The Mamiya 65 had some problems to get around regarding the sync plug, and its idosyncratic press focus mechanism, but I was able finally to integrate them into a new board. I also cobbled up a focus scale on masking tape, which I will eventually photograph, re-do in photoshop with real type, and print and laminate. No waste: I found someone who happened to need a Mamiya Press 65mm focus mount!

Mine didn't come with a strap, so I got a slightly stretchy and soft velcro strap about 18" long at the hardware store that fit with two or three passes through the strap loops. If I want a tight fit, I put my hand under all levels of the strap, against the body, but for a loose grip I can slip my hand in the middle of the stack somewhere, for a progressively looser grip. I think I like it better than the original handle, actually.

Another Century trick: cheaper and better-made than Graphic roll holders? Mamiya RB67 roll holders. You need to break a couple of tabs off the dark slide, then it's fine. Less than $40 each, all day long on Ebay.

The black skin is another mod. Mine was grey, but very ratty from a lot of use as a wedding camera. India ink fixed that. Someone on Ebay makes new graphite-laminate boards for about $20. Easier than making your own, and nicer, too.



Century 23
by Michael Darnton, on Flickr

 

[wombat2go]

After some conversation with Dan (Thanks!) I went ahead and removed the strap added a left hand grip to allow for a cable release and a flash.
There are some difficulties in fitting the Super Angulon lens to this camera and it needs to be done on a workbench with tools.
Even so I was not able to avoid a slip resulting in a fingerprint on the rear element.
The camera is now ready for use in the cold with gloves on, and I might take it over to Port Huron for a test.
https://app.box.com/s/9ae2b7j3brqpx4nn7qi9zc9ijoyi4atf
https://app.box.com/s/lkr7rh6dcqrbq3scjfadeg64l49f2aai
https://app.box.com/s/3m61pjb5de3h69is87f1dhl2vu1kkcha
https://app.box.com/s/mz7ojn38ffnr72q78e2nkmb7gihpv0ld
https://app.box.com/s/l2cjfuvct3exl3ysefhftd1u4lk6nyg7
https://app.box.com/s/dee1nqyql2wit578sqnz9uhbahiy53xf

After that I will convert it back to standard.

The next lens I want to try on the 2x3 camera is an old "84mm Graflex PhotoRecord f/5" in an Alphax Sychromatic.
I tried that one today on the 4x5 and on the ground glass, it looks like it covers the RH/8 frame.

 

[wombat2go]

Century hotrodding!



Mine didn't come with a strap, so I got a slightly stretchy and soft velcro strap about 18" long at the hardware store that fit with two or three passes through the strap loops. If I want a tight fit, I put my hand under all levels of the strap, against the body, but for a loose grip I can slip my hand in the middle of the stack somewhere, for a progressively looser grip. I think I like it better than the original handle, actually.

Another Century trick: cheaper and better-made than Graphic roll holders? Mamiya RB67 roll holders. You need to break a couple of tabs off the dark slide, then it's fine. Less than $40 each, all day long on Ebay.

Useful tricks, I have a RB67 ProS and I use the Graflex RH/10 backs on it but not the RB67 backs on the 2x3 as I thought they did not fit, not noticing that the cause is only the darkslide.
The leather strap on the 4x5 Speed here is frayed, so I will try your strap.

 

[Dan Fromm]

After some conversation with Dan (Thanks!) I went ahead and removed the strap added a left hand grip to allow for a cable release and a flash.
There are some difficulties in fitting the Super Angulon lens to this camera and it needs to be done on a workbench with tools.

Thanks for the kind word. I'm still puzzled. Why does attaching a 65/5.6 SA to a Century Graphic require a workbench with tools? I ask because per Schneider y'r lens' rear cell's OD is 50 mm. The widest rear cell I pass through my Century's back is from a 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon. Its OD is 60 mm and getting it in there and screwing it into the shutter is no fun. Inserting and attaching a little thing like a 65/5.6 SA's rear cell looks to be much easier. One unscrews the rear cell from the shutter, mounts lens board with shutter, the reattaches the rear cell through the camera's gate. Seems straightforward, not very difficult and shouldn't need workbench and tools. What am I missing?

Meandering Marsupial, I think you've missed something. When using a lens as short as 65 mm on a 2x3 Graphic, if the bed isn't dropped its end will be in the frame. Don't ask how I know.

I just checked with one of my 2x3 Crowns, here's what you'll have to do to use the lens: ttach it to the camera; pull the front standard on to the outer bed; tilt the front standard as far back as it will go; roll the outer bed as far back (inside the body as it will go); push the front standard backwards until its front is a little behind the front bed's rear crossbar; drop the bed; use front rise to center the lens' axis in the gate. This should focus the lens approximately to infinity, i.e., with the lens board ~ 70 mm from the film plane. You may have to slide the standard backwards a mm or two to hit infinity. And then you'll be ready to use it. CAUTION: DO NOT TRY TO DROP THE BED WHEN IT IS NOT IN ITS REARMOST POSITION.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan

Oh, yeah, why are you screwing around with 2.25" x 2.75" when you could be shooting 2.25" x 3.25"?

 

[wombat2go]

Hi Dan,
The horizontal bed is not visible in the frame here at f/16. I put a white alligator clip vertically on the end of the bed.
It looks like about 15mm clearance. I will recheck in daylight tomorrow
The front standard is about 10mm onto the horizontal bed for infinity focus

I am screwing around with RH10 6x7 on both the 2x3 Century and the RB67, and with the RH8 on the 4x5.
The widest angle I can do here is with the Takumar 6x7 55mm on the RH8, on the Speed 4x5.

Part of the reason is, I have to admit, because I had not realized until recently that the RH8 was available for the 2x3 camera!

However the 2x3 RH8 are both rare and costly according to my searches.
For example Pacific Rim always has a good number of RH10 and I purchased a few from them, but I never saw a 2x3 RH8 listed there : http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/catalog/fq11.htm
Also as Michael mentioned above, the RH10 and the RB67 backs are interchangeable.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Hmm. Its been a long time since I shot a 65 on my Century, but when I did with a 65/6.8 Wolly I had to drop the bed. I shoot lenses longer than 47 mm on my 2x3 Speed and with it the bed must be dropped for anything shorter than 80 mm. I could, though, be mistaken about modern lenses on the Century. Check with film to be safe. IIRC with the Wolly I couldn't see the ends of the rails on the GG but the film saw them much too well.

Why limit yourself to RH8s? The earlier "23" Graphic roll holders are ok, late ones' shells even have the RH8's shorter gate and pin rollers.

Check with KEH, they have one but their pictures don't give me confidence it is what they think. One of the risks of buying Graflex roll holders is that the carriages and shells are mismatched. They show two pix, one of a shell with no carriage, the other of a shell (the same?) with a carriage whose frame numbers I can't read or count.

I just took a quick look at what's on eBay, found one 2x3 shell with a 12 exposure carriage. Not what anyone wants. Knob wind carriages work as well as lever wind and the two fit all shells. I have an RH-8 (so painted) shell with a knob wind carriage.

You're right and I'm surprised. Fewer 2x3 Graflex roll holders are on offer now than I'm used to seeing. But I haven't looked for a couple of months.

Why limit yourself to Graflex roll holders? I started out with Adapt-A-Roll 620s, prefer them to Graflex' roll holders.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan

 

[wombat2go]

Update/ Adding some info about the Super Angulon 65mm mounting on the 2x3 Century:

The bed has to be horizontal ( ie the first click) because the front standard is straddling the hinge at infinity focus.
with the reference line for stops at about +10mm in front of the hinge.

It would be possible to add the standard Graflex bed stops, if available, to avoid the use of the "jigger" tool for a field change on the park bench.

There is about 5mm of up shift limited by the rear cell pushing into the bellows folds.
There is only up( back) - tilt available, but the thumbscrews are behind the bed struts with difficult access.

With full downshift ( that is, standard, with the lens axis on the centre of the RH10) the bed is not obscuring the frame ( about 15mm leeway)

I am not able to screw in or unscrew by fingers, the cable to the Copal 0.0,
between the lensboard and the flare of the front cell, so I need needle nose pliers to do a lens change on the park bench.
Also, a 7/16 af is needed to un/bolt the grip onto the camera for travel.

A temporary complication is that the Copal 0.0 on this lens here is not firing the flash, i don't know if I can fix before leaving for Australia and Taiwan.

 

[mdarnton]

I don't know about this particular situation, but the person I first worked for, decades ago, showed me how, for wide angle lenses, a pencil is more useful than pliers and shutter cables. Use it for flipping the lens open and closed, for changing lens openings, and for firing shutters. It goes places fingers won't.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Update/ Adding some info about the Super Angulon 65mm mounting on the 2x3 Century:

The bed has to be horizontal ( ie the first click) because the front standard is straddling the hinge at infinity focus.
with the reference line for stops at about +10mm in front of the hinge.

If you need to drop the bed, pull the standard out until its leading edge is even with the rear of the outer bed rails. A 65 will then focus slightly through infinity and there's enough focusing travel to focus it to < 2 feet.

There is about 5mm of up shift limited by the rear cell pushing into the bellows folds.
There is only up( back) - tilt available, but the thumbscrews are behind the bed struts with difficult access.

As I keep saying, a Graphic is not a view camera.

With full downshift ( that is, standard, with the lens axis on the centre of the RH10) the bed is not obscuring the frame ( about 15mm leeway)

Have you tested with film? I just took a look through a 65/8 Fuji SW (flange-to-film distance within 0.5 mm of a 65/5.6 SA's) on a 2x3 Crown and you just might be right, even though I don't trust my lying eyes.

I am not able to screw in or unscrew by fingers, the cable to the Copal 0.0,
between the lensboard and the flare of the front cell, so I need needle nose pliers to do a lens change on the park bench.

You need one of these Dead Link Removed Leave it permanently attached to the shutter.