Adding new lenses for Voigdlander Bergheil

[Ole]

Z - Zeit, means "Time". Trip the shutter to open, trip again to close. Do not tension the shutter!
D - Dauer, the same as "Bulb". Shutter opens when release is pushed, and closes when it is released. Do not tension the shutter!
M - Moment, gives the indicated shutter speed. Shutter must be tensioned before pressing release.

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

Thanks so much, Ole! My question was really stupid (I speak rather fluent german).
BTW, I did my first test with this lens, using a strobe in the studio, at f:22: the result is... astonishingly good! I wonder how it would perform wide opened...

 

[Ian Grant]

Tessar's 135mm/150mm give optimum performance across the field at f22 accoring to Zeiss pre & post WWII, so a similar lens should behave comparably.

I've been disappointed with my Tessar's wider than f16 for my landscape work, but then I'm after critical sharpness, for portraits etc they would be superb.

It also has to be remembered that when you see exhibitions of original prints made pre WWII by well known European photographers with these camera's the enlargements were never very great, ad the images "Jewel" like.

Ian

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

Thanks, Ian! BTW I like jewels

 

[JPD]

I'm planning to someday make, or let someone make, new Bergheil bayonets with different holes to fit smaller shutters.

I would be grateful if you give me an advice what steps should I make with looking for proper lens with shutter (e.g. Goerz Dagor 165-180mm) which I am going to adopte to Bergheil 6x9? How can I be sure I will be able to adopte the chosen lens to Bergheil? It seems that there are a lot issues I should take into consideratiom before I make decision to buy any of them.

I wonder if it's possible. I have a 168mm Goerz Dagor, and it came in a Compur 1 that is too large for the 6,5x9 Bergheil. The shutter doesn't work (and can't be repaired), so I keep the lens cells in a tobacco tin waiting for a new shutter. But the threads are special, so they don't fit any shutter I've tried.

I also have a 130mm Dagor, which came in a Compur 0. I bought a cheap Voigtländer Avus 6,5x9 for it, and it was a direct fit.

 

[renes]

I'm planning to someday make, or let someone make, new Bergheil bayonets with different holes to fit smaller shutters.

I wonder if it's possible. I have a 168mm Goerz Dagor, and it came in a Compur 1 that is too large for the 6,5x9 Bergheil. The shutter doesn't work (and can't be repaired), so I keep the lens cells in a tobacco tin waiting for a new shutter. But the threads are special, so they don't fit any shutter I've tried.

Those Dagor 165mm lenses I have seen had too large shutters and attaching mount to fit to Bergheil 6x9, but they are right for 9x12 Bergheil. Dagor's 150mm looks ok. and will fit but longer focal lenses in Goerz Dagor line lenses probably will not to the 6x9. Hope Hugo Meyer, Dallmeyer or even Cook, Bausch&Lomb made 180mm lenses that go to Bergheils 6x9 lensboard... and 210-240mm to Bergheil 9x12 one.

I am not sure but it seems there were variations of Bergheil in each line format and they might differ in diameter of hole lensboard, therefore a few lenses may not fit to one Bergheil but may to another one...

I had Heliar 105mm f/3.5 lens and its rear lens did not go into the lensboard' hole of my 6x9 Bergeil equipped with Heliar 105mm f/4.5 at all.

 

[renes]

Does someone know (or have?) if there was any Voigtlander Bergheil repair manual?

 

[Ole]

I have a camera manual, but not a repair manual...

 

[renes]

Ole, Have you met someone who uses Bergheil 6x9 (or 9x12) DeLuxe green version equiped with Heliar f/3.5 lens?

I am curious if they have larger (diameter) hole in the lensboard... I can not confirm my suppositions...

 

[Ian Grant]

Renes, I suspect many 6x9 & 9x12 cameras had slightly different front plates even the same camera but with a different lens, particularly as the older pre-rimset Compur versions as there was no standard shutter used. 4 of my 5 9x12's all use different diameter holes. My Eurynar has by far the largest shutter, and I'd guess an f3.5 Heliar would be in an equally alrge shutter.

Ian

 

[Besk]

I adapted a 90/6.8 Angulon to my 9X12 Voigtlander Avus. The bed does not intrude. Wasn't sure if Ole was actually using one on his Voigtlander Bergheil.

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

Ole, does the manual provide information about the size of the filters for my Radiar? Thanks in advance,
Philippe

 

[JPD]

Ole, does the manual provide information about the size of the filters for my Radiar? Thanks in advance,
Philippe

Just measure the outer diameter of the lens mount. It takes push-on filters.

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

Thanks, JPD, but push-on filters aren't easy to find and can't be combined. That's the reason why I wanted to buy screwing filters (or adapter)!

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

JPD, do you mean that what I vaguely see is not a filter thread, just "striations"?

 

[JPD]

JPD, do you mean that what I vaguely see is not a filter thread, just "striations"?

They are the threads for the front element retaining ring. You can measure the inner diameter and try a screw-in filter of that size. It might work.

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

Believe me, it is not easy to find a filter in that size and TRY: I was expecting someone would KNOW-

 

[JPD]

Believe me, it is not easy to find a filter in that size and TRY: I was expecting someone would KNOW-

I believe you. It can't be fun to find a filter in the correct size, but find out that the threads are wrong.

Someone that could help you should be this collector: http://www.cinci.de/plat_berg3.html He seems to own two 9x12 Bergheils with Radiar. You can email him.

If screw-in filters are impossible to use, get push-on filters. They can be found, and most of them can be combined. Hey, I have many filters in 27, 28,5, 29, 30, 32, 37 and 42 mm for my cameras, and 90% of them can be combined. I sometimes stack them in my storage box.

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

Thank you so much! I've emailed him.

 

[edp]

Ole, Have you met someone who uses Bergheil 6x9 (or 9x12) DeLuxe green version equiped with Heliar f/3.5 lens?

I am curious if they have larger (diameter) hole in the lensboard... I can not confirm my suppositions...

My green 6.5x9 Bergheil with f/3.5 10.5cm Heliar has a hole about 42.5 or 43mm in the lens board, just slightly larger than the nut holding the bayonet ring. The f/3.5 Heliar needs a bigger shutter (Compur 1) than the f/4.5 one does, so I'd expect the lens board hole to be a larger diameter.

I have a 7.5cm lens which I have yet to fabricate a bayonet ring for (I'm sure there's a market for these things if somebody can have them made cheaply), but I wonder if the bed will intrude into the frame unless I use all the available rise movement. I'd certainly expect the bed to intrude with any lens shorter than 75mm fitted.

 

[Anton Lukoszevieze]

This is slightly away from this topic, but does anyone know if a Schneider angulon 90mm will screw into the hole that my Zeiss Tessar 13.5cm lens screws into on my 9x12 folder?

 

[Ian Grant]

No, the 90mm Angulon fits a Compur 0, your Dial-set Compur/Tessar is a bit smaller than a Rimset Compur 1 which the later 135mm & 150mm Tessar's fit. The Angulon isn't in the 1933 Zeiss catalogue so came out after the shutter switch. I have just double checked by physically trying

Ian

 

[Anton Lukoszevieze]

OK, thank you very much Ian, I find fitting lenses to different shutters and holes mind boggling sometimes. I know where I am with brass lenses and wooden holes! Any progress on film inserts for 9x12 holders?

 

[Ian Grant]

Any progress on film inserts for 9x12 holders?

Hopefully when I go back to the UK, maybe next month. I'll get the drawings ready.

Ian

 

[renes]

My green 6.5x9 Bergheil with f/3.5 10.5cm Heliar has a hole about 42.5 or 43mm in the lens board, just slightly larger than the nut holding the bayonet ring. The f/3.5 Heliar needs a bigger shutter (Compur 1) than the f/4.5 one does, so I'd expect the lens board hole to be a larger diameter.

I have a 7.5cm lens which I have yet to fabricate a bayonet ring for (I'm sure there's a market for these things if somebody can have them made cheaply), but I wonder if the bed will intrude into the frame unless I use all the available rise movement. I'd certainly expect the bed to intrude with any lens shorter than 75mm fitted.

Thanks for this info. It seems the Bergheil 6x9 were made only with 36mm hole in lens board (with Heliar 105/4.5) and 42,5mm (with Heliar 120 & 105/4.5 lenses). The bayonet versions.

I just bougth two new Bergheils: 6x9 with Heliar 120mm and 9x12 with Heliar 150mm, and the 9x12 has 47mm hole in lens board (comparing to 44mm in the first 9x12 one I bought). I bought also Angulon 90/6.8, few users reported that it fits to 9x12 Bergheil, as the Angulon 65/6.8 to 6x9 one. Now I try to find info it there is any vintage 180mm lens (Goerz/Zeiss Dagor, Dallmeyer, Cooke, Gundlach, Bausch & Lomb) that I can adopte and use with my 6x9 Bergheil, and 240mm lens with 9x12. All probably are f/6.3-6.8).