Adapting Enlarger Lens for Film "scanning" - 50mm threads?

[markjwyatt]

Thanks, that's been a project of mine for several years and continues to be updated as I get new brochures or specifications from manufacturers/agents/magazines etc. It's a work in progress.

Thank you! I have relied on it for purchases.

 

[markjwyatt]

Thanks to all for your help! I just bought a "Schneider-Kreuznach Componon-S 5.6 / 100mm Enlarging Lens" on the auction site. The price was right (I think; haven't seen it yet). And hopefully, I can make it work.

Apparently, there are two versions of this lens, and I think the one I am getting will have the M32.5x0.5 mounting threads (thanks to the Photo Cornucopia for that spec!).

But maybe I should have found an adapter before I bought the lens. I have found a "M32.5x0.5 female to M42x1 male thread adapter" - for $20.

Get it. Once you have that you should be able to further adapt to M39 (Leica) if needed.

 

[markjwyatt]

I'm in the process of putting together what I will need to use a micro 4/3 camera on a Bowens Illumitran that I'll be borrowing.
I'm thinking that a 105mm enlarging lens will most likely work best, but we will see.
The Bowens unit is currently set up for Nikon film and digital bodies. Fun times with adapters!

Looks very similar to the Durst. The Durst is really nice to work with (and I suspect the Bowens will be similar). I tried longer lenses, but ran out of bellows (EDIT: I tried a Pentax Bellows -Takumar f4 100mm as a test), so beware, but the 105mm sounds about right for micro 4, as long as the bellows supports you. [Edit: not relevant sentence removed]. I am a little worried as I would like to copy some 6x6 negs. I would probably need 100-120mm lens with APSC. I also have bellows, extension tubes, and other ways to approach it (one problem at a time).

 

[markjwyatt]

Markjwyatt, i started jurney in DSLR negative copy process 6-7 years ago and was basicaly doing it on my own with out much resources from outside. Basic lines were: Nikon APSC body, bw 35 negatives, later to expand to 6x6. Always at f8 or around. At first I made my own rig based on Nikon F belows holder and then Ps-4 negative holder and Micro Nikkors. Then moving to PB5 and PS-4. Tried many lenses. But had to stop at one moment. Life is too short to try all possible combinations

Agreed. You need to find what works and go with it. I was working with a Pentax Bellows II, but when I got a chance to buy the Durst very reasonably, I changed my approach. The Durst worked right out of the box once I got the 75mm enlarging lenses.

What I really wanted to get at was whether any of the lenses you listed had results you could not have been happy with?

 

[runswithsizzers]

Get it. Once you have that you should be able to furhter adapt to M39 (Leica) if needed.

I am going to wait until I have the lens in hand and have measured it before I order the adaptor. The auction photo looks like something may be already screwed onto the back threads. Maybe it's something I can use.

Funny, I started out asking about one rare thread - and ended up buying another. Anyway, if the lens does have the odd M32.5x0.5 threads, I have located adaptors to go to either M39 or M42x1, so I should be able to find bellows in one of those. The source jjphoto mentioned in post #4 has both adapters. Thanks jjphoto!

 

[markjwyatt]

I am going to wait until I have the lens in hand and have measured it before I order the adaptor. The auction photo looks like something may be already screwed onto the back threads. Maybe it's something I can use.

Funny, I started out asking about one rare thread - and ended up buying another. Anyway, if the lens does have the odd M32.5x0.5 threads, I have located adaptors to go to either M39 or M42x1, so I should be able to find bellows in one of those. The source jjphoto mentioned in post #4 has both adapters. Thanks jjphoto!

My Durst side copier came with an M42-M39 adapter also. This is a pretty common adapter for copy set-ups that use enlarging lenses.

 

[runswithsizzers]

My Durst side copier came with an M42-M39 adapter also. This is a pretty common adapter for copy set-ups that use enlarging lenses.

Are you saying your Durst came with adapters for adapting M32.5x0.5 threads to M39 or M42?

While M39/M42 adapters seem to be pretty common, my problem is, how do I get from M32.5x0.5 to M39 or M42? (the M32.5x0.5 lens mount may also be known as "Schneider 0"?) The Photo Cornucopia list of enlarger lenses shows only 15 lenses (out of over 400) have the M32.5x0.5 mounting threads, so it's not a common size.

So far, the only adapters I have been able to find with female threads for the M32.5x0.5 mount are in Portugal, Russia, or China. Nothing on eBay, North America. B&H will special order one for $28 plus shipping, which is almost as much as I paid for the lens. Oh well, it's only money.

I looked up the Durst slide copier; that looks like a sweet set-up. Prices weren't too bad either until you got down to the shipping.

 

[ruilourosa]

i use a apo-componon hm on d810... usable just for 35mm as i cannot focus very far... better than micro 60mm and micro 105mm from nikkor.

i have to get a 90mm for 6x7...

 

[Fer]

I use the following setup:

From back to front:
Sony A6000
Sony->Nikon adapter
Nikon PB-5 bellow
Nikon->M39 adapter
Rodenstock Apo-Rodagon N 50/2.8
Nikon PS-4 film duplicating holder
Custom bracket
LED panel

Actually, I have now swapped the Rodagon-N for a Rodagon-D2X (better border sharpness).
The camera is oriented in portrait mode because I prefer stitching 3 vertical shots for each 35mm frame (better resolving power, no it's not wasted resolution).

 

[jim10219]

You will be way better with good 80mm enlarger lens on APSC sensor than macro lens. I tryed Micro Nikkors 3.5 , 2.8/55 and Zeiss Makro Planar ZF2 2/50mm. Any enlarger lens I tried was better than them.

Yeah, that's the issue with most of the micro Nikkor 55mm lenses. The first version (the one I have) actually does a really good job with macro. But it's kind of a one trick pony, and is terrible at infinity. Most photographers don't want a one trick pony, however, so Nikon redesigned the lens so that all of the versions after the first version do better at infinity, with the expense being softer at macro distances. It allowed them to sell more lenses that way, but took away the only real reason to own a micro Nikkor 55mm (in my opinion) over a nifty fifty. Hence why I was saying a good macro lens CAV work really well, but finding a good macro lens isn't easy. Even so, it won't beat an APO enlarging lens. But then again, an APO lens isn't as important with digital, where you can "fix" chromatic aberrations in software, as it is in the analog realm, where you get what you get. Of course, it's always better to get it right in the camera than to try to fix it in post.

With my micor Nikkor I can easily resolve the grain of 35mm film for extremely sharp images (which are sometimes too sharp because digital prints large enough to show the grain look pretty bad compared to analog prints that show the grain). It takes multiple shots with the camera and stitching in software, which is rarely worth the effort, but it is possible. With larger formats, it's still possible, but trying to stitch too many photos together can lock up my computer and confuse the software, especially if single frames contain mostly blank space or repeating patterns (like windows in a skyscraper or grass fields).

 

[markjwyatt]

Are you saying your Durst came with adapters for adapting M32.5x0.5 threads to M39 or M42?

...

No, basically, where the camera mounts is similar to the mounting adapter for the Pentax Bellows II (and similar M42 bellows). I bought a second inexpensive bellows unit, and "hand turned" the adapter to fit, basically using a Dremel tool. The lens mount end is threaded M42. The Durst unit I bought had an M42:M39 adapter ring already installed, so I was able to use that with the M39 enlarging lenses. I do not know that Durst necessarily supplied it, but it came with the unit I bought used from ebay.

 

[markjwyatt]

I use the following setup:

View attachment 217588

From back to front:
Sony A6000
Sony->Nikon adapter
Nikon PB-5 bellow
Nikon->M39 adapter
Rodenstock Apo-Rodagon N 50/2.8
Nikon PS-4 film duplicating holder
Custom bracket
LED panel

Actually, I have now swapped the Rodagon-N for a Rodagon-D2X (better border sharpness).
The camera is oriented in portrait mode because I prefer stitching 3 vertical shots for each 35mm frame (better resolving power, no it's not wasted resolution).

Nice set-up. This is similar to what I was working on with the Pentax Bellows II (plus slide copier). Do you shield the gap between the lens and slide? The Pentax slide copier has a secondary bellows to cut out extraneous light, and without it (or some type of shielding), glare destroys contrast. With the Durst unit it is not an issue because the light source in the base is much brighter than room lighting .

 

[jim10219]

Nice set-up. This is similar to what I was working on with the Pentax Bellows II (plus slide copier). Do you shield the gap between the lens and slide? The Pentax slide copier has a secondary bellows to cut out extraneous light, and without it (or some type of shielding), glare destroys contrast. With the Durst unit it is not an issue because the light source in the base is much brighter than room lighting .

That's a good point. I originally made a skirt for my setup, which isn't as elaborate being a lightboard set below a tripod, but later found out it was easier to just mask off the light around the negative (I use a traditional enlarger negative carrier for this) and turning off the room lights before exposing.

 

[gorbas]

What I really wanted to get at was whether any of the lenses you listed had results you could not have been happy with?

All 80m lenses I tried will do the job quite good. It's really splitting hairs.
Without proper negative scanners on market today I had to have back up plan for my negatives. Added bonus is huge increase in scanning SPEED.
In next few days I should be done with some latest tweaks on my rig and maybe I should do final comparative test with lenses I have on APSC and FF Nikon body's?
I own my Nikkor 3.5/55 Ai for the last 30+ years and it was up to any task until I tried it with close to 1:1 copy ratios.
Nice set up Fer.

 

[markjwyatt]

I was using the Pentax Bellows-Takumar 100mm f4 lens on the Pentax Bellows II. It seemed to give pretty good results, but do not recall if I got full frame or not. Now that I think about it, this is the lens I put on the Durst and ran out of Bellows travel for focus. I need to go correct that. I should document my tests! Generally, like you, I just try and get it working, then use it.

 

[Fer]

Do you shield the gap between the lens and slide?

Yes, the slide holder has its own retractable mini-bellows. I retracted it for the picture (to show the lens).

 

[markjwyatt]

Yes, the slide holder has its own retractable mini-bellows. I retracted it for the picture (to show the lens).

Ok. Was not sure about that. What I ran into with some lenses is the distance grew too large of the length of bellows provided, and in some cases, the diameter of the lens end-piece was to large to clamp it on. In some cases I got things to work somewhat. I was contemplating various ways to create shielding (wrap cloth, cardboard tube, etc.).

 

[Fer]

I own my Nikkor 3.5/55 Ai for the last 30+ years and it was up to any task until I tried it with close to 1:1 copy ratios.
Nice set up Fer.

Thank you.
Yes, 1:1 copy (like 35mm frame "scanned" with a FF digital camera) is where most lenses show quality issues at frame edges.
If you can source one at decent price, the ApoRodagon "D" is wonderful: designed from the start to do 1:1 copy. Excellent sharpness across the whole frame at f/6.3, with resolving power in excess of 100 lp/mm.
Actually I'm using the D2X version (optimized for 1.5-2.5x enlargement) because I could not source the "D". Still excellent.

 

[Fer]

Just for the sake of completeness, this is a 35mm optical chart "scan" done with my setup. Values are expressed in lp/mm (line pairs/mm).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6klimt6wmvc3qv/FSR1_SonyA6000_singleshot_ApoRodagonD2X_f6.7_35mmframe.jpg
You see the resolution stays high right into the corners. Chart is the nice FSR1 Transmissive (values up to 250 lp/mm).

 

[gorbas]

Actually I'm using the D2X version (optimized for 1.5-2.5x enlargement) because I could not source the "D". Still excellent.

I already have the same lens.
Did you buy this FSR1 Transmissive chart? I can not see prices at http://www.danes-picta.com/txt_PhotoDigital.htm.

 

[Fer]

Yes, some years ago. Wrote directly to the "info" email asking for price as a private customer ("one-off" puchase).
Being a scanner nut, I just had to test all my scanners in a repeatable way.

 

[jtk]

Using a camera, you may find that a thin adapter ring and very short lens is amazingly effective. I did with 29mp Samsung and 16mm lens. I think that lens is essentially flat field at 1:1.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

I camera scan full rolls of film multiple times per week. I also scan 4x5 and 8x10 film using this method. Enlarger lenses sound like a clever way to scan until you realize that good modern macro lenses are also flat field, and also incredibly sharp. Especially since we're talking about using these optics at their sweet spot aperture. Do yourselves a favor and just get the Sigma 70mm 2.8 ART Macro and scan at 5.6. It'll match or out perform all the lenses that end in 'dagon or 'anon or Fancity-Germanar D. Though the enlarging lenses are certainly cheap, lets hope they stay that way for my Enlarger's sake. Never my scan-camera.

There is a guy in the 'digititizing with a digital camera' group on FB, and he has done all the comparisons. He too got the Sigma.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It is possible to get very high quality from DSLR scanning. Can you tell which of these (both taken with Fuji GA645Zi, albeit on different films) was scanned with my Nikon D5500 and a Nikkor 55 2.8 lens, and which was scanned with a $2500 Nikon Coolscan 9000? Of course, ignoring the metadata which gives it away...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/49236831746/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/49246311172/in/dateposted-public/