Acros + Rolleiflex= PITA

albireo · Feb 28, 2020

Apologies for reviving an old-ish thread. I seem to have the same problem as OP, and honestly it's driving me up the wall.

In my case the problem is with Foma film, which is in my experience quite thin, more so than Ilford and much more so than Trix for instance. I've wasted a few rolls of Foma 100, 200, 400 - all of them just go through completely. A lot of wasted film. The camera is a beautiful, beautiful Rolleiflex 3.5F III with a pristine 6 element Planar, and in otherwise mint condition. I really want it to work.

A bit of context: the sensing mechanism worked erratically when I first purchased it. I did have a couple of rolls going through fine, and the resulting photos were fantastic. However, most rolls just went through undetected.

I decided it would be too much of a gamble to keep using this as is, so I sent it off for a full CLA. Well it's now back from its *second* CLA. That's right: the first CLA solved nothing: actually, it made things worse: the camera detected no rolls anymore. I sent it back under warranty, including this time a sacrificial roll of Foma 100 for calibration, and explaining it I'd like the mechanism to be tuned to work with slim film. The repair person is Will van Manen, who I'm told is a reputable Rollei technician in the Netherlands.

Result: same story. 3 wasted Foma rolls. However, I've just loaded a roll of FP4+, which has gone though fine. So I thought I'd ask here: do I have to keep using this Rollei as is? Do I have to send it back hoping we get there eventually? Should I just give up hoping to use thin film with this camera and keep it only for thicker film? Which are the thickest B&W films anyway? Honestly, I'm not sure this sensing mechanism is the best idea Rollei ever had. My Rolleicord Va and my Minolta Autocord are 100% functional with all films, and I never missed the sensing mechanism. To put it mildly I'm frustrated.

TheFlyingCamera · Feb 28, 2020

albireo said:
Apologies for reviving an old-ish thread. I seem to have the same problem as OP, and honestly it's driving me up the wall.

In my case the problem is with Foma film, which is in my experience quite thin, more so than Ilford and much more so than Trix for instance. I've wasted a few rolls of Foma 100, 200, 400 - all of them just go through completely. A lot of wasted film. The camera is a beautiful, beautiful Rolleiflex 3.5F III with a pristine 6 element Planar, and in otherwise mint condition. I really want it to work.

A bit of context: the sensing mechanism worked erratically when I first purchased it. I did have a couple of rolls going through fine, and the resulting photos were fantastic. However, most rolls just went through undetected.

I decided it would be too much of a gamble to keep using this as is, so I sent it off for a full CLA. Well it's now back from its *second* CLA. That's right: the first CLA solved nothing: actually, it made things worse: the camera detected no rolls anymore. I sent it back under warranty, including this time a sacrificial roll of Foma 100 for calibration, and explaining it I'd like the mechanism to be tuned to work with slim film. The repair person is Will van Manen, who I'm told is a reputable Rollei technician in the Netherlands.

Result: same story. 3 wasted Foma rolls. However, I've just loaded a roll of FP4+, which has gone though fine. So I thought I'd ask here: do I have to keep using this Rollei as is? Do I have to send it back hoping we get there eventually? Should I just give up hoping to use thin film with this camera and keep it only for thicker film? Which are the thickest B&W films anyway? Honestly, I'm not sure this sensing mechanism is the best idea Rollei ever had. My Rolleicord Va and my Minolta Autocord are 100% functional with all films, and I never missed the sensing mechanism. To put it mildly I'm frustrated.

I've never had problems with Tri-X 400 or FP4+ through any of my three Rolleis (a pair of 2.8E's and a Tele). Try either of those films. Also, if you're into color, any of the Kodak C-41 negative films have worked just fine for me too.

Dan Daniel · Feb 28, 2020

You obviously have some rolls to use as testers. So that part is good. Respool them so the beginning is the... uh, beginning. As you re-spool them, you'll find that the film is not taped at the back end, so be sure to tuck it back in.

Not sure what it is called in your part of the world, but cellophane tape, or Scotch tape. Thin, clear tape on small rolls. Play around to figure out the width that will get you one wrap around the upper silver roller you put the film through when loading a Rolleiflex. Then apply this- one layer of tape with no overlap, minimal gap. You can wrap it with an overlap then run a razor blade down the tape and peel the second layers off, also.

See what happens. If it still won't kick, try another layer of tape.

You are basically pre-loading the thickness so that the Foma tape and film kick the mechanism.

No, you don't have to live with this. It isn't a very tricky adjustment. The side panel needs to come off, which is not quick but still basic. I've seen Rollei repair manuals from the 70s that discuss how to adjust for modern thin films so it isn't as if this is a new problem. Your repairman should do this properly.

R.Gould · Feb 28, 2020

albireo said:
Apologies for reviving an old-ish thread. I seem to have the same problem as OP, and honestly it's driving me up the wall.

In my case the problem is with Foma film, which is in my experience quite thin, more so than Ilford and much more so than Trix for instance. I've wasted a few rolls of Foma 100, 200, 400 - all of them just go through completely. A lot of wasted film. The camera is a beautiful, beautiful Rolleiflex 3.5F III with a pristine 6 element Planar, and in otherwise mint condition. I really want it to work.

A bit of context: the sensing mechanism worked erratically when I first purchased it. I did have a couple of rolls going through fine, and the resulting photos were fantastic. However, most rolls just went through undetected.

I decided it would be too much of a gamble to keep using this as is, so I sent it off for a full CLA. Well it's now back from its *second* CLA. That's right: the first CLA solved nothing: actually, it made things worse: the camera detected no rolls anymore. I sent it back under warranty, including this time a sacrificial roll of Foma 100 for calibration, and explaining it I'd like the mechanism to be tuned to work with slim film. The repair person is Will van Manen, who I'm told is a reputable Rollei technician in the Netherlands.

Result: same story. 3 wasted Foma rolls. However, I've just loaded a roll of FP4+, which has gone though fine. So I thought I'd ask here: do I have to keep using this Rollei as is? Do I have to send it back hoping we get there eventually? Should I just give up hoping to use thin film with this camera and keep it only for thicker film? Which are the thickest B&W films anyway? Honestly, I'm not sure this sensing mechanism is the best idea Rollei ever had. My Rolleicord Va and my Minolta Autocord are 100% functional with all films, and I never missed the sensing mechanism. To put it mildly I'm frustrated.

I only ever use Foma 200 or 400 in my Rolleis, I have 4, andI have never had any problems always started correctly, so I would say tyhat the senceig mechisim must still be out of correct adjustment, yes, Fomapan film is thin, but it always works fine in my Rolleie's, which have all had a CLA from a Rollei expert over this side of the pond

albireo · Feb 28, 2020

Thank you everyone. Just to be absolutely sure my technique is not the problem here, I'm using the instructions kindly provided by Butkus here

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/rollei/rolleiflex_35-28/rolleiflex_35-28.htm

To summarise:------------------------------------
Inserting new film spool: pull out film spool knob of lower spool chamber (4), insert film, right side first, and allow film knob to return to position.

Tear off tape seal.

Thread the beginning of the backing paper C printed side outwards C through the rollers of the film feeler mechanism (5) and push the paper leader into the long slot of the take-up spool (using the crank for correct positioning) (6). Tighten the backing paper by one half turn of the crank, while braking the full spool with the thumb (7).
----------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone confirm the above is the correct procedure for a Rollei 3.5F III?

Dan, thanks for the adjustment advice. I do have some clear matte 3M tape and will try to tweak the mechanism as suggested. For the time being, the FP4+ roll is correctly loaded and I will therefore go ahead and shoot the roll before trying again with Foma.

Dan Daniel · Feb 28, 2020

albireo said:
Thank you everyone. Just to be absolutely sure my technique is not the problem here, I'm using the instructions kindly provided by Butkus here

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/rollei/rolleiflex_35-28/rolleiflex_35-28.htm

To summarise:------------------------------------
Inserting new film spool: pull out film spool knob of lower spool chamber (4), insert film, right side first, and allow film knob to return to position.

Tear off tape seal.

Thread the beginning of the backing paper C printed side outwards C through the rollers of the film feeler mechanism (5) and push the paper leader into the long slot of the take-up spool (using the crank for correct positioning) (6). Tighten the backing paper by one half turn of the crank, while braking the full spool with the thumb (7).
----------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone confirm the above is the correct procedure for a Rollei 3.5F III?

Dan, thanks for the adjustment advice. I do have some clear matte 3M tape and will try to tweak the mechanism as suggested. For the time being, the FP4+ roll is correctly loaded and I will therefore go ahead and shoot the roll before trying again with Foma.

Yes, proper loading. It either trips or it doesn't.

You really should get the camera adjusted properly. It isn't hard. If you do send it back to your repairman, you just need to send him a 15 cm length of backing paper that includes the tape and film beginning for about 6-8cm of the length. He puts he plain paper through the rollers, pushes the black foot on the wind side of the film chamber, and pulls the paper/film forward. It should trip at the tape, not at the film. Traditional Rollei practice is to trip when the film plus tape hits the roller, but safe and effective modern practice is to trip at the tape only.

pentaxuser · Feb 28, 2020

It would seem that people's experience varies considerably with Rolleiflex and Acros and there are simple workarounds to possible adjustments that unless you are skilled in camera DIY might cost quite a bit for an expert's services.

Just out of curiosity have any of you who had problems with Acros now tried Acros II and if so is the problem cured. It is just possible, I suppose, that Fuji altered something such as backing paper to cure the issue. So any change of fortune?

Thanks

pentaxuser

NB23 · Feb 28, 2020

Dan Daniel said:
Yes, proper loading. It either trips or it doesn't.

You really should get the camera adjusted properly. It isn't hard. If you do send it back to your repairman, you just need to send him a 15 cm length of backing paper that includes the tape and film beginning for about 6-8cm of the length. He puts he plain paper through the rollers, pushes the black foot on the wind side of the film chamber, and pulls the paper/film forward. It should trip at the tape, not at the film. Traditional Rollei practice is to trip when the film plus tape hits the roller, but safe and effective modern practice is to trip at the tape only.

along with 15cm of the backing paper, he should also print your recommendation. Might be a bit insulting, but who cares!

My “faulty” rolleiflex accepts HP5, therefore I’m ok with it. However, one day I’ll send it to Fleenor. I woud hate to be stuck somewhere on the planet and not being able to use my camera because it suddenly don’t like hp5. My two other rolleiflexes accept all film. Also, this is why I also own 3 ikoflexes and a rolleicord, and I shuffle through them all. This is my way of taking no chances.

eli griggs · Feb 29, 2020

A camera as well made as a Rollie, should no have to be this fiddly, and my '58 Minolta Autocord (E) takes Acros just fine, as well as other 120 brands, including some thin Russian Stuff, from way back, which came in a Iskra from Ukraine, and which I ended up using as a transport test roll for several other 120's.

Being left in the cold with good film you can no use, just isn't right, especially in a nice camera like yours.

IMO.

Acros + Rolleiflex= PITA

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