Acros + Rolleiflex= PITA

NB23 · Jul 10, 2019

Well, here I am on vacation and I brought 100 rolls of tri-x for my Leicas and xpans and 35 rolls of Acros 120 for my Rolleiflex 3.5F.

I’m soon to run out of 35mm films and about to switch to my rollei. Unfortunately my rolley can’t sense the acros, thanks to its super thin and. Slippy paper. I load the film but it winds through completely.

Looks like I won’t be able to use my rolleiflex.

Now imagine if I came with only this combo, this would have been a wasted vacation with so many missed opportunities.

By the way, is there a hack that I can do in order to use my acros in this camera? Hack the roller somehow?

Pieter12 · Jul 10, 2019

Sorry to hear that. But a vacation shouldn't just be about taking pictures--it's not wasted.

M. Axel Wikstrom · Jul 10, 2019

If you have a changing bag or a dark place, you could put an extra layer of masking tape over the junction where the film meets the backing paper. PITA, but it should work.

NB23 · Jul 10, 2019

Pieter12 said:
Sorry to hear that. But a vacation shouldn't just be about taking pictures--it's not wasted.

You are right.
But imagine for a second, you go to Iceland and decide to dedicate all your acros that you purchased, which was supposed to be the last ever. Wouldn’t that be a horrible scenario?

nakol · Jul 10, 2019

you can get the film sensing and film movement sensing mechanism adjusted to accommodate Fuji films.

NB23 · Jul 10, 2019

M. Axel Wikstrom said:
If you have a changing bag or a dark place, you could put an extra layer of masking tape over the junction where the film meets the backing paper. PITA, but it should work.

I will try to do that! Have no changing bag but i’ll think of something.

I have these 5 “wasted” rolls of that I’ll have to respool so might as well try your trick.

Thanks!

Dan Daniel · Jul 10, 2019

You can also wrap the silver roller itself. If you have some cellophane tape, put a strip on, one layer without an overlap. Even if it is a bit short of a full wrap, it should work. The hack of the roller you were looking for.

This will basically 'preload' the sensor. You'll know right away if it is too thick because the film sensor will trip almost immediately at loading.

If this works out, you only need to do it once rather than adding tape to each roll individually.

NB23 · Jul 10, 2019

nakol said:
you can get the film sensing and film movement sensing mechanism adjusted to accommodate Fuji films.

Is this an expensive modification? Will it still work with traditional films afterwards?

I know my other 3.5F Planar works ok with Acros (although I lose about a frame), but my Schneider 3.5F just doesn’t work, which I have found out just now.

I also have a full mamiya C220 Kit, to which I could dedicate my last 100-ish Acros rolls...

Pieter12 · Jul 10, 2019

NB23 said:
You are right.
But imagine for a second, you go to Iceland and decide to dedicate all your acros that you purchased, which was supposed to be the last ever. Wouldn’t that be a horrible scenario?

I know I am going to come across as a *** (insert your preferred insult here), but if I were going somewhere remote to shoot, I would test the cameras before leaving. And have a back-up of sorts.

On another *** note, I am not sure what all the fuss is over Acros--it seems flat to me. I think that's why portrait photographers like it so much. I prefer FP4+.

NB23 · Jul 10, 2019

Dan Daniel said:
You can also wrap the silver roller itself. If you have some cellophane tape, put a strip on, one layer without an overlap. Even if it is a bit short of a full wrap, it should work. The hack of the roller you were looking for.

This will basically 'preload' the sensor. You'll know right away if it is too thick because the film sensor will trip almost immediately at loading.

If this works out, you only need to do it once rather than adding tape to each roll individually.

I thought about it, but I only have scotch tape. Who knows, that might work too? I was scared it would loose its tooth and just slide over it instead of making it turn. But I can try!

NB23 · Jul 10, 2019

Pieter12 said:
I know I am going to come across as a *** (insert your preferred insult here), but if I were going somewhere remote to shoot, I would test the cameras before leaving. And have a back-up of sorts.

On another *** note, I am not sure what all the fuss is over Acros--it seems flat to me. I think that's why portrait photographers like it so much. I prefer FP4+.

Yes, all my cameras are tested and I rotate/shuffle through my huge collection regularly, therefore I know all my camera’s little quirks by heart. But I’ve never thought to test a camera for a given film. Just wasn’t any logic into it... now I know better.

Dan Daniel · Jul 10, 2019

NB23 said:
I thought about it, but I only have scotch tape. Who knows, that might work too? I was scared it would loose its tooth and just slide over it instead of making it turn. But I can try!

Scotch tape is what I meant, that clear or semi-clear stuff. Masking or other heavier tapes might be too heavy. Better two piece if needed than one piece too heavy.

The upper roller doesn't move up or down, only rolls. And it is rolling along the back of the paper, not the film surface.

There is a roller that comes up from below- push the block 'foot' thing on the interior wind side of the film chamber towards the front of the camera and you'll see it rise up. As the film enters this space, it makes this roller go down and through the wonder of levers it causes a spring-loaded mechanism to release and start the film measuring system. Putting some tape on the upper roller means the lower roller will start just a smidge lower and hopefully trip when the film pushes it down another smidge.

NB23 · Jul 10, 2019

Yes I will try

nakol · Jul 10, 2019

NB23 said:
Is this an expensive modification? Will it still work with traditional films afterwards?

I know my other 3.5F Planar works ok with Acros (although I lose about a frame), but my Schneider 3.5F just doesn’t work, which I have found out just now.

I also have a full mamiya C220 Kit, to which I could dedicate my last 100-ish Acros rolls...

It involves opening both side panels and turning a couple of screws and checking by running a sacrificial acros film.
But I fix my own camera so I am sorry I do not know what the cost will be if you go to a repair shop...
I learned to fix my Rolleiflex by watching mikeno62 on YouTube ( ) by the way.

Dan Daniel · Jul 10, 2019

NB23 said:
Is this an expensive modification? Will it still work with traditional films afterwards?

I know my other 3.5F Planar works ok with Acros (although I lose about a frame), but my Schneider 3.5F just doesn’t work, which I have found out just now.

I also have a full mamiya C220 Kit, to which I could dedicate my last 100-ish Acros rolls...

You shouldn't lose a frame with any Rolleiflex and a thin film.

It is not a 'modification,' it is an adjustment. One Rollei planned for and accommodates. There are repair manuals from the '70s that show exactly how to make the adjustment and how much to finesse the trip point. Nakol is right that you need to pull the wind side cover (no need to pull focus side in my experience). If that is all that you need done, it shouldn't be that expensive but still most likely $100-150 or so? If you can find someone who will do it by itself. Just the labor getting in and out of a Rollei is a chunk of time and skill.

NB23 · Jul 10, 2019

Very good!

summicron1 · Jul 10, 2019

never had any trouble with Acros in my Rolleis. May be time to have yours checked. It should load fine.

This is why we test all our gear before a trip. Unless you did and this just started happening, in which case you really do need it checked/serviced.

pentaxuser · Jul 10, 2019

That's a real bummer and I can't offer any help but out of curiosity: Is this the old Acros film or the new stuff that is the problem and is it only a Rolleiflex problem or might it affect other cameras? My impression is that everyone here is agreeing that Acros is incompatible with this make of Rolleiflex camera without adjustments that may or may not make the Rolleiflex have problems with other 120 films? Is this the correct conclusion to what is being said/.

So Acros is unique in presenting a problem with a Rolleiflex?

Thanks

For info in case anyone thinks I am ignoring Summicron's post, it arrived while I was composing this one

pentaxuser

bdial · Jul 10, 2019

I've used hotel room closets, bathrooms and even the bed with the lights out and all the available blankets over my head to open up rolls of film or load sheet film holders in a pinch.

Helinophoto · Jul 10, 2019

NB23 said:
Is this an expensive modification? Will it still work with traditional films afterwards?

I know my other 3.5F Planar works ok with Acros, (although I lose about a frame), but my Schneider 3.5F just doesn’t work, which I have found out just now.

I also have a full mamiya C220 Kit, to which I could dedicate my last 100-ish Acros rolls...

My 2.8F had the very same issue with Acros last year, I had it adjusted, now it works with all films.
(would only trigger on Foma).

It is a very sensitive mechanism, so a little adjustment is prudent after 59 years.

I would recommend a proper adjustment.

And as a hack, I would put extra tape on the film, and leave the camera as-is, until you can get it corrected.

Sirius Glass · Jul 10, 2019

Are there any camera stores in Iceland?

Dan Daniel · Jul 10, 2019

pentaxuser said:
That's a real bummer and I can't offer any help but out of curiosity: Is this the old Acros film or the new stuff that is the problem and is it only a Rolleiflex problem or might it affect other cameras? My impression is that everyone here is agreeing that Acros is incompatible with this make of Rolleiflex camera without adjustments that may or may not make the Rolleiflex have problems with other 120 films? Is this the correct conclusion to what is being said/.

So Acros is unique in presenting a problem with a Rolleiflex?

Thanks

pentaxuser

It's an adjustment issue. I don't have time to redraw this but- (not a late model Rollei but the basic ideas are the same)

Look at 3 o'clock, right side. There is a black bar with a knob and silver screw in the middle. The other end of this black bar is inside the film chamber, the little foot on the side that you can push forward (no damage if you push it). At the left end of the black bar is a rivet holding a silver dog leg piece that has a hook on the top end. When you close the back, the black bar pulls this hook 'down' to the back of the camera against a thin piece of metal. You can adjust how much the hook is hanging onto the thin metal edge. The original Rollei adjustment was to have the top of the hook grab the full width of the skinny edge. By making it grab about half of the thin edge instead, it makes it react to thinner material.

As with most mechanical systems, there is variation in how they get set up, wear, etc. And people working on the camera can do these adjustments just because they knew it could happen decades ago. I've had many Rolleiflexes and almost never had a problem with Acros specifically. NB23 is unlucky enough to have a camera sitting on the wrong of the variations.

I actually think that preloading the upper roller with thin tape should fix his problem. The actual dimensions that matter are very small.

etn · Jul 11, 2019

NB23 said:
You are right.
But imagine for a second, you go to Iceland and decide to dedicate all your acros that you purchased, which was supposed to be the last ever. Wouldn’t that be a horrible scenario?

Doesn‘‘t Fuji plan to reintroduce Acros? you should be safe on that front. Good luck and enjoy your vacation!

etn · Jul 11, 2019

Helinophoto said:
My 2.8F had the very same issue with Acros last year,

My 2.8E even had this issue with Tri-X. I had it calibrated and it worked afterwards. As a matter of fact I much prefer the loading mechanism of the Rolleicors, Rolleiflex T and FX/GX (no, I don‘t own all those models )

mshchem · Jul 11, 2019

100 rolls of 36 exp 35mm. That's a lot of pictures. XPAN reduces this a bit. I would have to get out my deep 3.5 gallon tanks. I have a Nikor rack that hold 30 reels.

The 120 thing stinks, good luck with the tape field fix.

Acros + Rolleiflex= PITA

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