Acros 100 in peril?

[DREW WILEY]

Rumors, rumors. I never trust rumors. At the moment I'm testing substitutes anew. Pros and cons either way; but ACROS combines a number of desirable features in a manner no other film does.

 

[RattyMouse]

ACROS 100 had been in steady decline since 2013, especially the US and European markets. It simply was not being consumed in quantities to justify the effort of supply. So what's with the sudden fervent interest in wanting it back if people could not get off their backsides and use it, plenty of it, when it was available!?

I didnt think you had a source.

 

[B.S.Kumar]

So?
Buy your ACROS 100 from B.S. Kumar here on Photrio. No reason to go through Adorama.

Thank you, but the party is over. I have no more stocks of Acros 120. If someone is desperate, I can get it from smaller dealers at 4,500 JPY per pack, plus shipping. But most of you did not buy at 3,150 JPY, so I'd hardly expect any response.

Kumar

 

[B.S.Kumar]

I didnt think you had a source.

I don't know about earlier. I started selling Fuji film in February, 2016. Most of my Acros orders were from individuals who wanted 4x5 and 8x10. Then I started getting orders of 100 or 200 packs of 120 and 35mm from smaller stores in the US, Canada and Australia. It is only in the last one year or so that individuals started ordering 35mm and 120 in any significant numbers.

Kumar

 

[RattyMouse]

I don't know about earlier. I started selling Fuji film in February, 2016. Most of my Acros orders were from individuals who wanted 4x5 and 8x10. Then I started getting orders of 100 or 200 packs of 120 and 35mm from smaller stores in the US, Canada and Australia. It is only in the last one year or so that individuals started ordering 35mm and 120 in any significant numbers.

Kumar

Why would a USA store not get film through Fujifilm's own distribution? That seems very odd.

 

[B.S.Kumar]

I expect Fujifilm USA has minimum order requirements, or purchases of other films / items that are not as profitable may be required. Buying directly from a manufacturer has substantial costs, and significant upfront investments.

Kumar

 

[RattyMouse]

I expect Fujifilm USA has minimum order requirements, or purchases of other films / items that are not as profitable may be required. Buying directly from a manufacturer has substantial costs, and significant upfront investments.

Kumar

Well, if that is true, no wonder Fujifilm has failed to keep their films alive. Distribution is a way to lower costs for everyone. Restricting customers from distribution greatly increases their costs. There's a shop selling film in the small town where I live. I can't imagine that they buy much film compared to a place like B & H. Next to nothing really. But they never did carry Acros, which I always found strange. Plenty of Ilford film at this store so I'd buy some Delta 100 on the rare times I needed film faster than I could get from B & H. Ilford's gain was Fujifilm's loss.

 

[bvy]

So?
Buy your ACROS 100 from B.S. Kumar here on Photrio. No reason to go through Adorama.

So, they cancelled my order and B&H still has stock trickling in. Or they did. It's coming back. Maybe. No, it's dead again. This person has it. Oops, no he doesn't...

Acros is/was my go to film for the lunch hour street portraiture I've been doing. The prints are beautiful. But I always had nagging issues with the emulsion (details are out of scope for this discussion) and I don't think it was doing anything for me that Delta 100 can't do. So I guess I'm saying I would have liked the opportunity to continue using it, but it's time to move on.

 

[B.S.Kumar]

Well, if that is true, no wonder Fujifilm has failed to keep their films alive. Distribution is a way to lower costs for everyone. Restricting customers from distribution greatly increases their costs. There's a shop selling film in the small town where I live. I can't imagine that they buy much film compared to a place like B & H. Next to nothing really. But they never did carry Acros, which I always found strange. Plenty of Ilford film at this store so I'd buy some Delta 100 on the rare times I needed film faster than I could get from B & H. Ilford's gain was Fujifilm's loss.

I don't think this is unique to Fuji, or to other manufacturers. I'm sure you've heard of small stores whose buying prices were higher than B&H selling prices. Why do you think B&H is still getting some supplies, while almost everyone else in North America stopped stocking it? Even Maco in Germany says "Due to increased import costs we had to raise our sales prices by about 20%. The lower the availability of Acros 100 gets, the more our supplier increase the prices. Because of this, this will probably be the last delivery of Acros 100."

Ilford has an illustrious history, has deep domain knowledge and makes fine products, but in terms of sheer scale, Ilford is a hobbyist with a desktop 3D printer.

Kumar

 

[RattyMouse]

I don't think this is unique to Fuji, or to other manufacturers. I'm sure you've heard of small stores whose buying prices were higher than B&H selling prices. Why do you think B&H is still getting some supplies, while almost everyone else in North America stopped stocking it? Even Maco in Germany says "Due to increased import costs we had to raise our sales prices by about 20%. The lower the availability of Acros 100 gets, the more our supplier increase the prices. Because of this, this will probably be the last delivery of Acros 100."

Ilford has an illustrious history, has deep domain knowledge and makes fine products, but in terms of sheer scale, Ilford is a hobbyist with a desktop 3D printer.

Kumar

My company is pretty tiny, barely 300 employees world wide. We sell millions of gallons of lubricants each year. Yet we will sell 1 gallon to a customer who wants it, all via distribution. Distributors don't care about customer sizes. They are equipped to handle small and large.

Fujifilm simply doesnt want to sell film. It's clear for all to see. If Ilford's distribution can sell to small customer's so can Fujifilm's. There are different layers of distribution that can service customers of different sizes. But none of that works if the supplier wants out of the business. Kodak's films are in this tiny shop in my town. Why? Because they want to sell film.

 

[1kgcoffee]

Thank you, but the party is over. I have no more stocks of Acros 120. If someone is desperate, I can get it from smaller dealers at 4,500 JPY per pack, plus shipping. But most of you did not buy at 3,150 JPY, so I'd hardly expect any response.

Kumar

Not for lack of badly wanting. Priorities. I plan on purchasing a few years supply of 160ns and velvia 50 from you in the not too distant future. These films are soon to follow in my opinion and even harder to replace. Fuji is more likely to do another coating of Acros than any color film.

 

[B.S.Kumar]

My company is pretty tiny, barely 300 employees world wide. We sell millions of gallons of lubricants each year. Yet we will sell 1 gallon to a customer who wants it, all via distribution. Distributors don't care about customer sizes. They are equipped to handle small and large.

Fujifilm simply doesnt want to sell film. It's clear for all to see. If Ilford's distribution can sell to small customer's so can Fujifilm's. There are different layers of distribution that can service customers of different sizes. But none of that works if the supplier wants out of the business. Kodak's films are in this tiny shop in my town. Why? Because they want to sell film.

I don't know. You are quite inconsistent in your opinion of Fujifilm (and in your attitude towards photography as well). Just because Fuji discontinued Acros, you were ready to discontinue photography and buy a bicycle. B&H suddenly got a few packs of Acros and you jumped right back in. In the other thread, you praised Fujifilm for still standing while others fell by the wayside.

QUOTE:You live in a fantasy ignoring the reality that Kodak is today in very very serious financial trouble. Just last week Kodak floated the idea that they would sell off the most profitable part of their business in a last ditch effort to pay outstanding debt. The company is STILL not financially viable years after emerging from bankruptcy. The stock price has been declining 2-5% per day for weeks now. The rats are starting to bail from the ship. Kodak warrants have lost 95% of their value. Investors are that certain that the loans will not be repaid back.

If we are honest, it should have been Fujifilm that should have been the last man standing between the two film producers. Fujifilm is an exceptionally stable company, far stable than Kodak could ever dream of. Fujifilm at one point was committed to film. They aren't now, but they used to be. Fujifilm had it all at one point, ISO100 and 400 monochrome film. ISO160, 200, 400, 800, and 1600 color film AND two flavors of E6 film.

THAT is the company people should have rallied behind, not a dying company preparing to dismember itself. Sure, losing Portra would have sucked, but people would have moved on. They always do.

Well, we had our chance, but it was not to be.UNQUOTE

Have you asked your little photo shop why they never carried Acros? Perhaps you were/are the only person who shoots that strange Japanese film in your town? Perhaps you found that B&H was cheaper and used the local store only when you wanted something in a hurry? Maybe if you had asked them to get Acros for you, they could / would have?

Shigetaka Komori, Fujifilm's current CEO, has been with the company since 1963. He's not an outsider appointed by a private venture fund wanting to make quick bucks and exit in the next quarter. He even wrote a book detailing the how and why of the transition of Fujifilm from a purely photographic company into what it is today. The size of Fuji's non-photographic business proves that his decisions were right. Unfortunately, in the process, some things have had to be abandoned. That is simply what it is.

I have read a number of Fujifilm's annual reports and they have consistently emphasized their commitment to photography and imaging - not to film. Did you know Fuji used to make glass plates film sheaths for using film in plate holders? They even make photo frames! Instax is a hit. So what if some of us don't use it?

Let's just enjoy film while we can. After that, perhaps glass plates, tintype, even smartphone photography! There's a whole world of photography out there!

Kumar

 

[B.S.Kumar]

Not for lack of badly wanting. Priorities. I plan on purchasing a few years supply of 160ns and velvia 50 from you in the not too distant future. These films are soon to follow in my opinion and even harder to replace. Fuji is more likely to do another coating of Acros than any color film.

Let me know when you're ready to buy.

Kumar

 

[fdonadio]

I expect Fujifilm USA has minimum order requirements

Both Kodak and FujiFilm distributors in Brazil have minimum order values. They’re not that high (around 600 USD), but I guess retailers don’t want to gamble on selling film here — they’re not stocking any film or paper. The result: there’s no film or paper for us to buy and much of what is found on the market is contraband. That’s why I buy from abroad.

 

[B.S.Kumar]

Both Kodak and FujiFilm distributors in Brazil have minimum order values.

It's not just minimum order quantities. Every manufacturer has a portfolio of products. They want dealers to sell all their products or at least a reasonable range in a particular product line, and not cherry pick the best sellers. Who remembers Ilfocolor now?

Kumar

 

[fdonadio]

They want dealers to sell all their products or at least a reasonable range in a particular product line, and not cherry pick the best sellers.

Well, at this point here, the product “mix” offered by Kodak and Fuji here is limited — for example, there are no disposable cameras in Fuji’s catalog here. I talked to a Kodak rep and he told me they are bringing back Portra and T-Max in 120 format!

I have seen some labs selling Kodak Color Plus 200 and Fuji Superia X-Tra 400 here, but nothing else.

So, I believe this kind of policy is not in place here.

 

[B.S.Kumar]

Those labs may not be buying from Kodak directly, but through a distributor, or someone lower down the chain. Labs have deals for chemicals and supplies, and the distributor may let some of them buy the kind of film that can sell in their local market. My point is that Kodak or Fuji would not deal with a small shop wanting only 100 USD worth of a particular film. National distributors also may not deal with such shops, or individuals, for that matter. I can't buy from Fuji, though I probably sell more film than the two local shops combined! They also buy through a regional sub-distributor.

Kumar

 

[RattyMouse]

I don't know. You are quite inconsistent in your opinion of Fujifilm (and in your attitude towards photography as well). Just because Fuji discontinued Acros, you were ready to discontinue photography and buy a bicycle. B&H suddenly got a few packs of Acros and you jumped right back in. In the other thread, you praised Fujifilm for still standing while others fell by the wayside.

My attitude is completely consistent if looked at carefully and with context. I have sold off more than half my film equipment (my wife is overjoyed) and now have only 2 35mm cameras. I never stated anywhere I was going to sell off my medium format gear and that is what I am shooting now. Further, I was losing strong interest in any photography because I could no longer get any Acros. Then, I lucked into a quick sale of 25 pro packs of 120 Acros and so I resumed shooting. That's 100% consistent.

 

[removed account4]

I don't know. You are quite inconsistent in your opinion of Fujifilm (and in your attitude towards photography as well). Just because Fuji discontinued Acros, you were ready to discontinue photography and buy a bicycle. B&H suddenly got a few packs of Acros and you jumped right back in. In the other thread, you praised Fujifilm for still standing while others fell by the wayside.

QUOTE:You live in a fantasy ignoring the reality that Kodak is today in very very serious financial trouble. Just last week Kodak floated the idea that they would sell off the most profitable part of their business in a last ditch effort to pay outstanding debt. The company is STILL not financially viable years after emerging from bankruptcy. The stock price has been declining 2-5% per day for weeks now. The rats are starting to bail from the ship. Kodak warrants have lost 95% of their value. Investors are that certain that the loans will not be repaid back.

If we are honest, it should have been Fujifilm that should have been the last man standing between the two film producers. Fujifilm is an exceptionally stable company, far stable than Kodak could ever dream of. Fujifilm at one point was committed to film. They aren't now, but they used to be. Fujifilm had it all at one point, ISO100 and 400 monochrome film. ISO160, 200, 400, 800, and 1600 color film AND two flavors of E6 film.

THAT is the company people should have rallied behind, not a dying company preparing to dismember itself. Sure, losing Portra would have sucked, but people would have moved on. They always do.

Well, we had our chance, but it was not to be.UNQUOTE

Have you asked your little photo shop why they never carried Acros? Perhaps you were/are the only person who shoots that strange Japanese film in your town? Perhaps you found that B&H was cheaper and used the local store only when you wanted something in a hurry? Maybe if you had asked them to get Acros for you, they could / would have?

Shigetaka Komori, Fujifilm's current CEO, has been with the company since 1963. He's not an outsider appointed by a private venture fund wanting to make quick bucks and exit in the next quarter. He even wrote a book detailing the how and why of the transition of Fujifilm from a purely photographic company into what it is today. The size of Fuji's non-photographic business proves that his decisions were right. Unfortunately, in the process, some things have had to be abandoned. That is simply what it is.

I have read a number of Fujifilm's annual reports and they have consistently emphasized their commitment to photography and imaging - not to film. Did you know Fuji used to make glass plates film sheaths for using film in plate holders? They even make photo frames! Instax is a hit. So what if some of us don't use it?

Let's just enjoy film while we can. After that, perhaps glass plates, tintype, even smartphone photography! There's a whole world of photography out there!

Kumar

thank you kumar !
( for your distriubution of film, selling of cameras, and posts like this ! )
john

 

[B.S.Kumar]

25 packs of Acros is all it took? At that point of time, I had a hundred packs for sale, admittedly at 40 cents more per roll, after including shipping. So do we conclude that when those 25 packs are over, you will again lose interest in photography?

Kumar

 

[fdonadio]

My point is that Kodak or Fuji would not deal with a small shop wanting only 100 USD worth of a particular film.

Point taken and agreed!

That’s why the minimum order quantities/values are in place. I wanted to buy a C-41 “kit” directly from a Kodak distributor here, but it costs way less than the minimum order. The rep I talked to told me to buy some RA-4 and paper to top-up the order.

 

[RattyMouse]

25 packs of Acros is all it took? At that point of time, I had a hundred packs for sale, admittedly at 40 cents more per roll, after including shipping. So do we conclude that when those 25 packs are over, you will again lose interest in photography?

Kumar

We shall see.

 

[RattyMouse]

Point taken and agreed!

That’s why the minimum order quantities/values are in place. I wanted to buy a C-41 “kit” directly from a Kodak distributor here, but it costs way less than the minimum order. The rep I talked to told me to buy some RA-4 and paper to top-up the order.

Neither Fuji nor Kodak deal with customers at this level. Distributors handle customers like this. The small film shop in my town sells maybe 5-10 rolls of film PER week. They get the film through distribution.

 

[removedacct1]

Good riddance to Fuji. "Commitment" isn't something we can expect from them, so find a suitable alternative and get on with your work. Give your $$$ to a manufacturer who gives at least some hint of commitment to the craft.

 

[cmacd123]

just to clarify distribution, these folks ---> https://continentalphoto.com/ are typical of the smaller order folks that supply smaller shops.