Acros 100 in peril?

mooseontheloose said:

This bothers me so much! Damn you Fuji! I go through more of this film in a year than all others combined. I need to stock up now, but I really can't afford to - my credit card is not going to like me, but I really have no choice. Maybe I can sell my Fuji x100s to help pay for it.

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I'm like you and shoot more Acros than every other film put together X 2. I have in my B & H shopping cart right now a 500 roll 120 size order along with 100 rolls of 35mm Acros. I have not pulled the trigger yet because they are closed for the week due to Jewish holidays. I need to also buy a freezer to store this film.

I am NOT going to give up my Acros. Not for the next 10 years at least.

Damn Fuji! They are THE worst film producer in the world.

RattyMouse said:

Damn Fuji! They are THE worst film producer in the world.

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I am with you on being perplexed about losing one of my favorite films, and just ordered as much as I could afford.
But, Fuji is a business not a charity, and businesses exist to make money. A business will continue ad infinitum to do anything which is profitable. Delusional is anyone who thinks that Fuji is/was making money by producing ACROS, and is withdrawing it from the market to hurt photographers who like it, even though withdrawing it hurts their bottom line. They are withdrawing it because it has become unprofitable for them to market it, all things considered. Obviously. That’s how the world works, except in the mind of conspiracy theorists.
So, it’s damn us, not damn Fuji. Well, not exactly us. It’s the Sensor People. The Phone People. Damn them.

Larry Cloetta said:

I am with you on being perplexed about losing one of my favorite films, and just ordered as much as I could afford.
But, Fuji is a business not a charity, and businesses exist to make money. A business will continue ad infinitum to do anything which is profitable. Delusional is anyone who thinks that Fuji is/was making money by producing ACROS, and is withdrawing it from the market to hurt photographers who like it, even though withdrawing it hurts their bottom line. They are withdrawing it because it has become unprofitable for them to market it, all things considered. Obviously. That’s how the world works, except in the mind of conspiracy theorists.
So, it’s damn us, not damn Fuji. Well, not exactly us. It’s the Sensor People. The Phone People. Damn them.

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All that blather about Fujifilm's commitment to film was just that, blather.

Larry Cloetta said:

I am with you on being perplexed about losing one of my favorite films, and just ordered as much as I could afford.
But, Fuji is a business not a charity, and businesses exist to make money. A business will continue ad infinitum to do anything which is profitable. Delusional is anyone who thinks that Fuji is/was making money by producing ACROS, and is withdrawing it from the market to hurt photographers who like it, even though withdrawing it hurts their bottom line. They are withdrawing it because it has become unprofitable for them to market it, all things considered. Obviously. That’s how the world works, except in the mind of conspiracy theorists.
So, it’s damn us, not damn Fuji. Well, not exactly us. It’s the Sensor People. The Phone People. Damn them.

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I'd really like to know if Acros is losing money for them, or if it's just not bringing in as big a profit as they would like. Even on Japanese sites photographers are really upset by this.

I'm on the fence about stocking up. There are other B&W films made by companies that are passionate about film, why not give my money to them?

Most paper cannot resolve the kind of detail that acros is capable of.

The only thing really worth stocking is fujichrome.

Arcadia4 said:

One aspect is that often by the time fujifilm formally announce a discontination, the film has already been withdrawn from distributon outside Japan, which may explain the difficulty of obtaining it in Australia for example. Presumably this is because its easier to manage the final production sale to the home market.

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I do not see a reason for any company to take this approach.
Other than out of an patriotic attitude to serve their people longest.

Larry Cloetta said:

They are withdrawing it because it has become unprofitable for them to market it, all things considered.

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I doubt that its been unprofitable, rather as a quoted company there is a constant pressure to maintain/increase margins. If the margin on an alternate product is better be that Instax or cosmetics than this will take priority for new investment for the investment capital available. Hence quoted companies often end profitable lines that a privately held company (able to accept a lower return on capital) might continue (Fuji vs Ilford maybe) because it is not subject to constant worries about stock price and reporting to the market.

The end of availability is really a decision not to coat any new stock, which involves a large upfront cost/investment (given its most economical to coat a large batch of master rolls, which can be converted later as required). More likely this is due to a view on the risk on future margins for new stock being coated (only realised of course when you sell it).

Fuji actions in this context are probably rational even if disappointing for us film shooters. They were the only big film producer to survive the transition to digital without bankruptcy or sale. Traditional film as mature product/mature market has thus been managed as a 'cash cow' product with limited investment (and there will always need to be re-investment in maintaining emulsions/equipment etc) with profits used to diversify the business. Certainly I am sure that at board level there is almost surprise they are still selling film, and as key people move on in the business any retention of a lower margin product line for 'sentimental' reasons will diminish. I am sure that internal comparisons are made to Instax where only 3 formats/2 emulsions? is believed to outsell numerous formats and emulsions for traditional films with all the accompanying cost and complexity so margins for Instax are no doubt better, plus its sells cameras too. That said the recent rationalisations will not doubt have improved fuji and retailers margins in traditional film too whether thats short term profit maximisation or will enable them to retain a simpler product line longer term remains to be seen. Personally I think the best we can hope for is the survival of their main color negative stock (Pro 400H and Superia 400 X-tra).

One suspects in the case of Fuji E6 given the large amount of out of date (2017) or nearly out of date (2018) stock on the market in Europe at least Convertion has actually run ahead of demand to the extent that packaged film is going out dated before they distribute it from the warehouse, given retailers report getting 'new' out dated stock indicating demand lower than forecast at the time of packaging and one would conclude little chance of a new batch being coated.

mooseontheloose said:

I'd really like to know if Acros is losing money for them, or if it's just not bringing in as big a profit as they would like. Even on Japanese sites photographers are really upset by this.

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Of all the B&W films I've seen on dealers shelves in the last 12 years Acros (and other Fuji B&W films) has been the least common, and that's in Europe, and North and South America. While I was living in Turkey my nearest films stockist always had Ilford and Foma films usually in bricks of 10, the odd roll of Tmax, Trix and Acros. I saw the same in Chile and Peru, Venice, Athens, Canada.

So maybe Acros is losing Fuji money. The biggest surprise I've had in over 50 years of shooting film is how well Foma have done marketing their B&W films around the world in recent years. It really has shocked me to see so little Kodak and Fuji B&W films available in some places, I used only Tmax 100 & 400 after Agfa stopped making film and just couldn't get any in Santiago or Valparaiso, Chile, only two rolls of Acros at one dealer, plenty of Ilford and Foma though.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

Of all the B&W films I've seen on dealers shelves in the last 12 years Acros (and other Fuji B&W films) has been the least common, and that's in Europe, and North and South America. While I was living in Turkey my nearest films stockist always had Ilford and Foma films usually in bricks of 10, the odd roll of Tmax, Trix and Acros. I saw the same in Chile and Peru, Venice, Athens, Canada.
So maybe Acros is losing Fuji money. The biggest surprise I've had in over 50 years of shooting film is how well Foma have done marketing their B&W films around the world in recent years. It really has shocked me to see so little Kodak and Fuji B&W films available in some places, I used only Tmax 100 & 400 after Agfa stopped making film and just couldn't get any in Santiago or Valparaiso, Chile, only two rolls of Acros at one dealer, plenty of Ilford and Foma though.
Ian

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I don't disagree with you Ian! I feel like Fuji has not done enough to promote their products, not just here in Japan, but worldwide. People love their film but talk about how difficult it is to find (although I was just in Barcelona and there is a dedicated Fujifilm store there - only Fuji products are sold there). In addition, some products (paper, chemicals) are only available in Japan. Stores here keep the bare amount of products on the shelf, which often means they are sold out of what most film photographers want (which is crazy in a city like Kyoto!). Which makes me think they don't care. They probably have been relying on the continued goodwill of (probably older) photographers who have always used Fuji products, without considering the larger picture. Do they really think that younger people are only into Instax and will never make the transition to other films? Are they not paying attention to what's happening with other film manufacturers?

I guess though, we shouldn't be surprised as they have killed off every other black and white film in their line up. Acros was the last man standing and I doubt it will make it to October the way people will buy up this film. Sheet film may be available in other countries but it's absolutely gone from Japan - I can't find any store (real or online) that sells it. I meant to buy a couple boxes for future pinhole work but I guess that's not going to happen.

As it is, I will try to buy as much as I can afford right now, but I have already been trying other films (Delta, Rollei Retro, etc) over the past year or two, so it won't be too big a shock when I have to transition to other film stocks.

Poisson Du Jour said:

But that is not exactly pushing ACROS to its limits. My work is rarely less than a minute. Try 2 to 5 minutes, or even a 20 minute pinhole exposure...
I think TMax100 is a very worthy substitute and with a little development tweaking would be just fine.

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I've exposed this film for anywhere from 1 sec to 2.5 hours on several occasions... so I know it's capabilities. I'm not a fan of TMax 100's look. I do like TMY-2 however, but it's beyond affordable for me.

The writing has been on the wall for some time now - this hardly comes as a surprise. Aside from its reciprocity characteristics, I never developed much love for Acros: I felt there were other 100ASA films that performed better for my needs, all of which have less conspicuous grain (I'm thinking of Tmax 100 in particular).
Give your money to someone producing the next best alternative, rather than throwing more money to the company that has just abandoned you. That's what I'd be doing, anyway.

paulbarden said:

The writing has been on the wall for some time now - this hardly comes as a surprise. Aside from its reciprocity characteristics, I never developed much love for Acros: I felt there were other 100ASA films that performed better for my needs, all of which have less conspicuous grain (I'm thinking of Tmax 100 in particular).
Give your money to someone producing the next best alternative, rather than throwing more money to the company that has just abandoned you. That's what I'd be doing, anyway.

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Nope. I buying more Acros than I ever possibly imagined. I'm taking this film to the end of my shooting days.

Visible grain with Acros? You have to be kidding.

mooseontheloose said:

This bothers me so much! Damn you Fuji! I go through more of this film in a year than all others combined. I need to stock up now, but I really can't afford to - my credit card is not going to like me, but I really have no choice. Maybe I can sell my Fuji x100s to help pay for it.

And the Fujibro paper...it's one of the few truly lithable papers out there. I know it's not available outside of Japan, and maybe has limited appeal because it's RC paper, but it produces beautiful sandy tones. I'd like to stock up on this too, but there aren't too many options left (it's been apparent for some time that it's going - the paper selection in Yodobashi, while not great, always had huge amounts of Fuji paper. For some now it's just been a couple of boxes, just the hard grades, glossy, which of course have less appeal).

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And that is why I have a large refrigerator. I load up on films that have been announced to be discontinued so that I can keep them from the hoarders. I still have Kodak UltraColor 400 in 135-36 and 120 as well as Kodak VividColor 160 in 4"x5" after all these years. I feel badly that I only bought two rolls of HIE when I could have bought the last full box at Samys. They even asked me several times if I was sure.

How many years past expiration date will frozen Acros keep?

FWIW, I checked with my buyer in Japan and he told me that Acros sheet film was gone in Japan, but that 120 roll and 35mm was still readily available. He does buy from Yodobashi, but it could be a different location from where RattyMouse said that 4x5 was still in stock. Whatever, I think it's pretty obvious that it's all going to disappear soon; and, I predict, before 10/2019.

RattyMouse said:

How many years past expiration date will frozen Acros keep?

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When I worked at Kodak I was told that most color films can be frozen for up to ten years without problems. Black & white films even longer. Infrared films can still have some fogging even when frozen.

RattyMouse said:

How many years past expiration date will frozen Acros keep?

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B&W and being slow speed should keep for quite a while. I know someone who loaded up on Expired/very short dated rebranded Acros around 2010-2011 and still is fine. $2 a roll for that Arista Acros, man, that's something simply unthinkable. But aside of pricing nowadays it's just being able to shoot it.

Damn Fuji. I only have a couple rolls since I'm a mainly Color shooter. Think I'll leave the stock up for its users and pick some Provia instead.
Fuji feels like a totally calm person that suddenly and almost out of the blue, picks up a hammer and smashes something to smithereens. I wonder how is it that Acros is hard to keep in line (discontinued) being a simpler product, compared to C41 and E6.

Prest_400 said:

Fuji feels like a totally calm person that suddenly and almost out of the blue, picks up a hammer and smashes something to smithereens. I wonder how is it that Acros is hard to keep in line (discontinued) being a simpler product, compared to C41 and E6.

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Really. Acros must sell an order of magnitude more than E6 films. How Fujifilm cannot keep this product in production shows me how much they want to rid themselves of their film legacy.

Got my order in for 120. Certainly not 500 roles! My wife would kill me! But yes it is mind boggling that Fuji cannot keep this film in production. They obviously do not care. Really makes you wonder about the future of their colour films.

Ian Grant said:

Of all the B&W films I've seen on dealers shelves in the last 12 years Acros (and other Fuji B&W films) has been the least common, and that's in Europe, and North and South America. While I was living in Turkey my nearest films stockist always had Ilford and Foma films usually in bricks of 10, the odd roll of Tmax, Trix and Acros. I saw the same in Chile and Peru, Venice, Athens, Canada.

So maybe Acros is losing Fuji money. The biggest surprise I've had in over 50 years of shooting film is how well Foma have done marketing their B&W films around the world in recent years. It really has shocked me to see so little Kodak and Fuji B&W films available in some places, I used only Tmax 100 & 400 after Agfa stopped making film and just couldn't get any in Santiago or Valparaiso, Chile, only two rolls of Acros at one dealer, plenty of Ilford and Foma though.

Ian

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Yep, Ilford and Foma both sell pretty good world-wide. If a photog travels a lot, it’d be worth at least being familiar with those emulsions as they’ll likely be most available.

Adrian Bacon said:

Yep, Ilford and Foma both sell pretty good world-wide. If a photog travels a lot, it’d be worth at least being familiar with those emulsions as they’ll likely be most available.

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I've traveled all over Asia (Japan, China, Hong Kong, Korea, Malaysia, Thailand, and Taiwan). Acros is always easy to find. Or at least it was up until last week.

It's also VERY easy to get Acros in the US.

I've never seen a roll of Foma in my life.

Andrew O'Neill said:

Got my order in for 120. Certainly not 500 roles! My wife would kill me! But yes it is mind boggling that Fuji cannot keep this film in production. They obviously do not care. Really makes you wonder about the future of their colour films.

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I shoot 90% black and white so don't care too much about color film. Once 400H is gone, I'll just stop shooting color for the most part.

Acros is my bread and butter. I shoot almost that film exclusively. I shot TMAX400 until the paper situation wrecked that film. And I used to shoot a fair amount of Ilford film. Interestingly, I havent shot a single roll since Ilford sold out to private equity and Simon left. That wasn't a conscious decision on my part. It just ended up that way.

RattyMouse said:

I've traveled all over Asia (Japan, China, Hong Kong, Korea, Malaysia, Thailand, and Taiwan). Acros is always easy to find. Or at least it was up until last week.

It's also VERY easy to get Acros in the US.

I've never seen a roll of Foma in my life.

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You’ve probably seen it without realizing you’ve seen it. Foma is a mass rebrander. You’d be amazed at how many labels are really Foma under the covers. Just off the top of my head here in the US, Lomography, Arista.EDU, and Holga 400 are all Foma. If you see a generic house brand, it’s probably Foma. You can tell by the way the film tab is cut. Foma leaves a tell-tale squared off segment on the very end.

Adrian Bacon said:

You’ve probably seen it without realizing you’ve seen it. Foma is a mass rebrander. You’d be amazed at how many labels are really Foma under the covers. Just off the top of my head here in the US, Lomography, Arista.EDU, and Holga 400 are all Foma. If you see a generic house brand, it’s probably Foma. You can tell by the way the film tab is cut. Foma leaves a tell-tale squared off segment on the very end.

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Well, I walk past that stuff and go right to the top tier film.

For those who shoot a lot of Acros, my condolences. For all of us as well. Sad to lose another film stock from a once major player. Who knows what lies ahead? Surely I hope those of you who love this film stock will be fortunate enough to stock up and continue for a long time to come. Fujifilm as a film company... R.I.P.