Acetone developer

[Gerald C Koch]

A bit of chemistry. Lithograph developers depend on the reaction of formaldehyde and the sulfite ion. This reaction has 2 purposes. First, it keeps the amount of free sulfite ion to a very low concentration. Second, the reaction releases hydroxide ions and raises the pH of the solution. The Butler developer depends on the second reaction to raise the pH to a level where the Metol can work as it would in a carbonate based developer. If you look at the structures of formaldehyde and acetone you will see that they are very similar. Formaldehyde can be viewed as both an aldehyde AND as a ketone like acetone. They both work to raise the pH. After reaction the amount of acetone present in the developer is not enough to effect the acetate film base.

 

[Rudeofus]

Is there any advantage of using Acetone vs. Sodium Hydroxide, especially for a continuous tone developer?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Lithograph developers contain hydroquinone as the developing agent. In the presence of low sulfite concentrations this developing agent causes infectious development. Since the Butler developer produces continuous tone negatives this aspect does not seen to occur with Metol. When I first saw this formula it struck me as rather curious. I don't know why Bishop chose to do this. But then most photographers are not chemists. Some, like Champlin, certainly came up with some very curious concoctions.

 

[mrred]

 

[Rudeofus]

Well now, there you go. The definitive word. I stand corrected. It hasn't talked me into switching developers, but it is informative.

Jerry made a very similar statement in posting (there was a url link here which no longer exists) in this very thread, and the significance of this posting #9 was specifically pointed out in posting (there was a url link here which no longer exists). Reading the whole thread, and in particular Jerry's valuable contributions, could have saved a lot of bad blood.

 

[Merg Ross]

David Goldfarb is correct in that I have used an Acetone/Metol developer for many, many years. Our good friend Paul Bishop, with my father, worked out the formula to which you refer during the 1960's. It was intended for 120 roll film which Paul was using in his portrait business.

I have not read the entire thread, but will add that a stock solution of Metol/Acetone can be made and lasts at least a year. I believe mine is different from Paul's in that the stock solution contains: Sodium Bisulfite, Metol, Acetone, Water. For working solution: Water, addition of Sulfite, Stock. I have never used anything other than Acetone from the hardware store, so can not speak to the use of more pure forms. I use this developer for sheet film, however it should work for 120 also with a bit of experimentation.

Use caution when mixing the Acetone (I do so outside). Acetone is magic!

 

[mrred]

Any chance of showing some wisdom? What would be the final formulas you use?

 

[Vaughn]

No, but this stuff is not the same. It's only 30ml / l and it has gone through a reaction with the sodium sulphite to create a lye like base. The ph of acetone is actually 7, but is highly reactive to many things. I suspect it just dissolved the gelatin.

I brush acetone onto gelatin often -- no sign of damage to the gelatin. Fifteen milliliters of hardware store acetone mixed with 5ml water (which also contains Ammonium dichromate) is brushed over 100 sq inch sheet of dried gelatin (made of water, 12% gelatin, 8% sugar, 0.5% carbon)*. I like its smell...

* Real men are not afraid to mix their English and metric systems

And PS -- the clear containers that 35mm film come in will not be eaten by acetone -- and they have caps!

 

[Merg Ross]

Any chance of showing some wisdom? What would be the final formulas you use?

As noted, this is my formula for Ilford FP4+ sheet film, 10 minute tray development with 3 minute pre-soak. Experimentation for your film and methods will be necessary.

Stock Solution/ Metol-Acetone

Water... 700 ml
Sodium Bisulfite... 10 gm
Metol ... 10 gm
Acetone ... 250 ml
Water to ... 1 liter

For Use

Water ... 2 liters
Sodium Sulfite ... 2 level tsp.
Stock ... 200 ml

Hope this helps. Stock Solution will last a year in brown glass bottle or equivalent. The 200 ml Stock is for fast flims, try 150 ml for slow films.

www.mergross.com

 

[Merg Ross]

I brush acetone onto gelatin often ..... I like its smell...

Me too!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

mmmmmm acetone....

 

[mrred]

I gave it a whirl.....adding 10g of glycin and got.....



Considering it was N74+, it's quite impressive. Thanks Merg Ross for posting this gem.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

While the Bishop formula is an interesting one and produces very nice negatives there is nothing mystical about it. The same results could be produced with a different Metol formulation using a more conventional buffering system.

 

[Merg Ross]

Thanks Merg Ross for posting this gem.

You are most welcome, glad to help. For reference, the formula as posted should be credited as Ross/Below Film Developer.

Thanks.

Merg

www.mergross.com

 

[mrred]

While your comment is true Gerry, it has been difficult to get common developing ingredients north of the border. Even to get something as simple as lye is next to impossible, and I live in Montreal. For me, it's all what I can do with what I can actually get.

This one has a nice look and is not just about the buffer.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

While your comment is true Gerry, it has been difficult to get common developing ingredients north of the border. Even to get something as simple as lye is next to impossible, and I live in Montreal. For me, it's all what I can do with what I can actually get.

This one has a nice look and is not just about the buffer.

I sometimes forget that it is harder to obtain chemicals outside of the US. The only one where I have had even the smallest difficulty in obtaining has been a particular brand of lye. Those in law enforcement have decided that this brand is used in making drugs. No problem in getting other brands however.

Out of curiousity, I may have to mix up some of the developer and measure its pH.

 

[mrred]

I too only measured the ph out of curiosity. This is why I never bothered to calibrate it first. I'm also using Glycin, if that made a difference.

Anything B&H ships I am good for. There was a local chemical distributor that I could get large quantities ($300 min order) of sulphuric acid and dichromate, but they got bought out. Simple things like CD4 and Hydroquinone are the frustrating things. No access to pyro chems have been a bit of a pain.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

For chemicals, try Nymoc in Toronto. Email John Burrows. nymoc@bellnet.ca

 

[mrred]

I've fired off an email before, no reply. I'll try again.

 

[mrred]

There are other suppliers who ship to me in Montreal without restrictions. Artcraft, Tech Chem, Chemistry Store etc.

My experience with Artcraft is they will ship "kits", meaning all the associated chems to make 1 batch of "whatever" . They will not send you 100g of pyrogallol. The other aspect is they charge quite a bit more for those smaller measured "kits" when you start to add up what little ingredients there are.

The other aspect is it is usually perfectly legal to ship the hydroquineone (or what ever). Most just don't want to deal with the paperwork. It was a joke to get stannous chloride and copper sulphate from the UK, but next to impossible from the US.


But maybe we should touch bases for suppliers.

 

[mrred]

They must have changed their policies since I last tried (4-5 years ago). I will have to try again.

 

[mrred]

It could have been that I asked before trying to order...sometimes it does not pay to do that....

 

[mrred]

I made a batch of the concentrated solution and some working solution in early December. The concentrated solution has turned black (assuming it's bad now) but the working solution survived. Go figure.....

 

[Trask]

I gave it a whirl.....adding 10g of glycin and got.....

View attachment 99196

Considering it was N74+, it's quite impressive. Thanks Merg Ross for posting this gem.

Which formula did you add the 10g glycin to? And to what volume of liquid? I'm intrigued with adding glycin, so thanks for giving some advice on how you used glycin here.

 

[mrred]

That would be to the original (first) one discussed. I did not add it to the second version yet, but I plan to.

At first the negs look too dense, but as you print / scan it becomes clear that it's the mid-tones that are effected. The fine edges are retained from the acetone developer.