Abusive comments when taking a shot

[BrianShaw]

... and with an 8x10 camera so there is no sneaking possible.

 

[BrianShaw]

... plus he was most often in the nude himself, so where would he hide a camera?

 

[BrianShaw]

Again? Are you a religious fundamentalist?

No, not yet. I'm not even sure that I aspire to be one. I describe myself as one who has conservative Christian beliefs and despite regular participation in a major traditional corporate religion... I don't let that get in the way of my faith no matter how cynical I seem (or are)(or am).

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

you forgot to mention
these are people he has/had been photographing for 10-15 years
or maybe longer ... they weren't strangers but good friends

Some of his models are second (and maybe even 3rd) generation models - children and perhaps grandchildren of the very first women he photographed. I think he's been doing this since the 80s, so almost 30 years now.

 

[removed account4]

Some of his models are second (and maybe even 3rd) generation models - children and perhaps grandchildren of the very first women he photographed. I think he's been doing this since the 80s, so almost 30 years now.

thanks scott,

i knew he did this for a long time, but i wasn't quite sure how long it was ...
and it is kind of strange how people equate his work with being a peeping tom
or a voyeur when he was considered almost part of the families he photographed ...

but then again i know of someone in the boston area who was a photographer
and photographed her child, and brought her film to a lab for process only ...
the lab worker saw the negatives, made contact prints and called the police on her ...
this is kind of out there for a lab worker, seeing i know others who worked at the same lab
who used to print and process "pºrn" for people who dropped it off.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

thanks scott,

i knew he did this for a long time, but i wasn't quite sure how long it was ...
and it is kind of strange how people equate his work with being a peeping tom
or a voyeur when he was considered almost part of the families he photographed ...

but then again i know of someone in the boston area who was a photographer
and photographed her child, and brought her film to a lab for process only ...
the lab worker saw the negatives, made contact prints and called the police on her ...
this is kind of out there for a lab worker, seeing i know others who worked at the same lab
who used to print and process "pºrn" for people who dropped it off.

That kind of thing has happened many places, where parents have been arrested for photographing their babies in the bathtub. Its absolute silliness. A little common sense goes a long way in evaluating if a baby in the bathtub is being photographed for prurient purposes.

 

[cliveh]

What do people think about the ethics of Sally Mann’s photographs?

 

[removed account4]

That kind of thing has happened many places, where parents have been arrested for photographing their babies in the bathtub. Its absolute silliness. A little common sense goes a long way in evaluating if a baby in the bathtub is being photographed for prurient purposes.

i agree it is kind of crazy and common sense goes a long way ..
this wasn't in a bathtub or an infant though, but a child at the beach
i never saw the photos, only heard about them ..

at the time this happened ( mid 1990s ) there was a huge uproar about this ...
dcyf threatened to take the kid from the parents ( from what i remember )
and the woman who was a well known and respected photographer ended up on
national tv shows and eventually got a degree in law ( from harvard ? ).
and the lab, which was a well known pro-lab was in the public eye regarding privacy &c.
i am friends of mutual friends and don't really remember what happened
after the dust settled ..

 

[FM2N]

My boys both got guns on their first birthdays. My ten year old is now an excellent shot and goes with his Dad regularly. This was him (on the left) and his buddy last weekend (ducks).

We don't have handguns - at all. It's also pretty hard to conceal a rifle/shotgun ... so maybe that's where my point of view comes from. I don't recall every seeing my Dad in his truck without a long gun of some sort.

View attachment 57702

I don't think I've eaten that many ducks in my whole life. What does one do with so many? How many ducks does one hunter shoot in a year or season?

 

[Katie]

I don't think I've eaten that many ducks in my whole life. What does one do with so many? How many ducks does one hunter shoot in a year or season?

That was 6 guns worth. Our portion (2 guns) went into one of the best gumbo I've ever had. My husband is Cajun, and quite a chef.

 

[lxdude]

There will always be prayer in public schools, as long as there are tests.

 

[Diapositivo]

Do you have crucifixes in state school rooms?

(We in Italy have, since I think 1929, they are the subject of a certain polemic. In my high school on day 1 the crucifix was immediately put in a drawer of the teacher's desk. I remember one teacher entering on first day and saying: "I see you already made the crucifix disappear. Well done").

Sometimes common sense works better than legislative battles.

 

[bobwysiwyg]

There will always be prayer in public schools, as long as there are tests.

I recall saying a few myself from time to time.

 

[Roger Cole]

Not that I'm aware of, but there may be religious symbols in some rural schools, particularly in the south, where complaining about it, while it would get them removed, would get a family completely ostracized in the community.

 

[Darkroom317]

Even in Northwest Arkansas we didn't prayer in school.

Instead we were demanded to worship the football team.

 

[Katie]

Here in Texas, as far as I know, religious symbols and the like are not allowed. Of course, as the poster above me mentioned, we are required to love and have faith in our sporting programs (football and baseball).

My kids are in private catholic school, but play on the football team that feeds into public school (city team), since our school doesn't go all the way to highschool, he enters public school in 7th grade). He wants to go to public, though, to play sports. Friday night lights is HUGE here in Texas. And as a season ticket holder to the Texas Longhors, he gets lots of football exposure.

 

[ROL]

Here in Texas, as far as I know, religious symbols and the like are not allowed.

Hmmm... What exactly were George Bush and Rick Perry, then?

 

[eddie]

Back on topic...
I've had guns drawn on me, twice, while taking photographs.

The first was near a large farm. I was on the road (not private property) setting up with a 4x5, to take a photo of a tree. While under the cloth, I heard yelling, so I turned to see an old man, with a shotgun, heading my way. A few seconds later, his son came running, yelling "Dad. Stop!" The son got the gun from his father, apologized to me, explaining that "Dad" had Alzheimer's, and they should probably lock up his guns. Good idea...

The other time was frightening. I was hired by a DC real estate management company to photograph some of the buildings they managed. Mostly office buildings, but there were a few embassies, too. For some of the embassies there were very specific rules. One was the Saudi Embassy. I could only photograph from the street, and it had to be done at a certain time of day. The company I was working for cleared everything with the embassy secretary, and I was set to go. I arrived at the appointed time, and began working. Within 3-4 minutes, about 6 guys, with guns out, were running at me, screaming (I can only assume it was abusive, as it was in Arabic). They grabbed my camera ( an SLR) and had me lay on the ground. A few minutes later, a few DC police cars arrived, as well as a handful of big black SUV's from the State Department. I explained to the cops, and State Department guys, what I was doing. At that point, the Secretary came out, apologizing because he'd forgotten to tell his security guys to expect me. I was allowed to finish, but 2 of the security guys followed me around.

 

[Roger Cole]

We certainly did pray when I went to school in Tennessee, but that was 1969 (first grade) - 1981 (high school graduating class.) I'm not sure if they've been dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century yet or not. I'm reasonably certain they aren't yet to the 21st.

 

[Roger Cole]

Back on topic...
I've had guns drawn on me, twice, while taking photographs.

The first was near a large farm. I was on the road (not private property) setting up with a 4x5, to take a photo of a tree. While under the cloth, I heard yelling, so I turned to see an old man, with a shotgun, heading my way. A few seconds later, his son came running, yelling "Dad. Stop!" The son got the gun from his father, apologized to me, explaining that "Dad" had Alzheimer's, and they should probably lock up his guns. Good idea...

The other time was frightening. I was hired by a DC real estate management company to photograph some of the buildings they managed. Mostly office buildings, but there were a few embassies, too. For some of the embassies there were very specific rules. One was the Saudi Embassy. I could only photograph from the street, and it had to be done at a certain time of day. The company I was working for cleared everything with the embassy secretary, and I was set to go. I arrived at the appointed time, and began working. Within 3-4 minutes, about 6 guys, with guns out, were running at me, screaming (I can only assume it was abusive, as it was in Arabic). They grabbed my camera ( an SLR) and had me lay on the ground. A few minutes later, a few DC police cars arrived, as well as a handful of big black SUV's from the State Department. I explained to the cops, and State Department guys, what I was doing. At that point, the Secretary came out, apologizing because he'd forgotten to tell his security guys to expect me. I was allowed to finish, but 2 of the security guys followed me around.

Both of those are pretty outside the norm.

Something like the first case worries me. He could easily shoot someone not knowing what he's actually doing or, around here anyway, just as easily get himself shot.

 

[Steve Smith]

explaining that "Dad" had Alzheimer's, and they should probably lock up his guns. Good idea...

An even better idea would be to not allow him to own any guns.


Steve.

 

[lxdude]

And as a season ticket holder to the Texas Longhors,

Ooops.
Best hope Mama didn't just get her boy's butt kicked.

 

[lxdude]

The other time was frightening. I was hired by a DC real estate management company to photograph some of the buildings they managed. Mostly office buildings, but there were a few embassies, too. For some of the embassies there were very specific rules. One was the Saudi Embassy. I could only photograph from the street, and it had to be done at a certain time of day. The company I was working for cleared everything with the embassy secretary, and I was set to go. I arrived at the appointed time, and began working. Within 3-4 minutes, about 6 guys, with guns out, were running at me, screaming (I can only assume it was abusive, as it was in Arabic). They grabbed my camera ( an SLR) and had me lay on the ground. A few minutes later, a few DC police cars arrived, as well as a handful of big black SUV's from the State Department. I explained to the cops, and State Department guys, what I was doing. At that point, the Secretary came out, apologizing because he'd forgotten to tell his security guys to expect me. I was allowed to finish, but 2 of the security guys followed me around.

Seems to me somebody should explain to those guards the way things are here in America, before there is a serious "incident".

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The problem with embassies is that they are considered in fact to be sovereign territory. Which is why someone can enter a foreign embassy and seek refuge, and so long as the embassy sees fit to grant it, the host country has no power to enter the embassy and remove the person. So technically the Saudi security guards were within THEIR rights to act the way they did, if the embassy grounds extended to where he was standing.

 

[lxdude]

The problem with embassies is that they are considered in fact to be sovereign territory. Which is why someone can enter a foreign embassy and seek refuge, and so long as the embassy sees fit to grant it, the host country has no power to enter the embassy and remove the person. So technically the Saudi security guards were within THEIR rights to act the way they did, if the embassy grounds extended to where he was standing.

Yes, IF. He said he was shooting from the street. That does leave ambiguity as to whether that street is on embassy grounds, or is a public street as I figured he meant.

Too bad some of our own embassies don't seem to be as self-protective.