About kallitype selenium toning and kallitype itself

[henrit]

Hi, folks,
First, a question about kallitype selenium toning: is there any practical objective assessment of the protective action of selenium toning over kallitype prints? (A simple example would be a bleaching solution that doesn't work on properly toned pictures). I have been using the formula given by Sandy King (selenium in sodium sulfite), not diluted krst, and I think I see a discrete color shift during toning, but that might be just wishful thinking.
Now a question about kallitype process. Being no chemical expert, it was much to my surprise that I recently read somewhere that ferric amonium oxalate (fao) is not suitable for kallitypes. I've been making what I believed to be kallitypes for months, using fao (though long expired), with fairly good results, and I'm inclined to keep using it, given the astronomically high price of the right single ferric oxalate. What's wrong with my recipes? And what process am I working with after all?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I sometimes tone with very diluted KRST, There is an obvious colour shift to cool. Sorry, I can't help you with FAO question.

 

[nmp]

Hi, folks,
First, a question about kallitype selenium toning: is there any practical objective assessment of the protective action of selenium toning over kallitype prints? (A simple example would be a bleaching solution that doesn't work on properly toned pictures). I have been using the formula given by Sandy King (selenium in sodium sulfite), not diluted krst, and I think I see a discrete color shift during toning, but that might be just wishful thinking.
Now a question about kallitype process. Being no chemical expert, it was much to my surprise that I recently read somewhere that ferric amonium oxalate (fao) is not suitable for kallitypes. I've been making what I believed to be kallitypes for months, using fao (though long expired), with fairly good results, and I'm inclined to keep using it, given the astronomically high price of the right single ferric oxalate. What's wrong with my recipes? And what process am I working with after all?

This thread might be of help.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kallitype-with-fe-iii-ammonium-oxalate.43141/

 

[henrit]

Thank you, Andrew and Niranjan.

 

[nmp]

Hi, Henrit:

If you don't mind can you share your non-KRST process/chemistry for selenium toning....thanks.

:Niranjan.

 

[henrit]

Hi, Niranjan,
This selenium toner formula is shown by Sandy King in his website:
http://sandykingphotography.com/resources/technical-writing/the-kallitype-process
Here's a cut&paste from it:
"SELENIUM TONER #1
To prepare a stock solution, add 100g sodium sulfite to 100ml hot water and allow to dissolve completely. Then add 10g selenium powder.
A working toner is mixed by adding 100ml stock solution to water to make a total of 1000ml, or the equivalent. Stronger solutions give browner prints, weaker solutions, cooler tones."
As I have no chemical expertise, I asked a professional chemist friend to prepare the solution, which he did, though complaining about the amount of selenium remaining unsolved.
As I said, I can see no significant change in image tones, even after ten to fifteen minutes of toning bath.

 

[NedL]

I think Bostick and Sullivan used to make a selenium toner like this one - not sure if they still do. I won't handle selenium powder myself.

 

[nmp]

Hi, Niranjan,
This selenium toner formula is shown by Sandy King in his website:
http://sandykingphotography.com/resources/technical-writing/the-kallitype-process
Here's a cut&paste from it:
"SELENIUM TONER #1
To prepare a stock solution, add 100g sodium sulfite to 100ml hot water and allow to dissolve completely. Then add 10g selenium powder.
A working toner is mixed by adding 100ml stock solution to water to make a total of 1000ml, or the equivalent. Stronger solutions give browner prints, weaker solutions, cooler tones."
As I have no chemical expertise, I asked a professional chemist friend to prepare the solution, which he did, though complaining about the amount of selenium remaining unsolved.
As I said, I can see no significant change in image tones, even after ten to fifteen minutes of toning bath.

Thanks for the info and the link. I had contemplated making such a toner myself (fashioned after the old Kodak T-55 toner) some time ago, but abandoned the idea as I didn't feel like dealing with the hazards of selenium powder and the problems involved in dissolving. I had not seen Sandy King's description so I thought may be there was an alternate/easier way, which unfortunately that does not seem the case.

I ended up using KRST which in dilution of 1:60 works very nicely for the Centennial POP I was working on at the time with, with both increased Dmax and significant tonal change. Then I tried to use the same for salt prints but without much success. In the mean time I found that a toner made from Himalayan Black Salt (Kala Namak) did a pretty good job. Perhaps it can work for kallitypes as well. More on that here:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...out-black-salt-makes-a-terrific-toner.148338/
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/salt-free-salt-print-toned-with-himalayan-black-salt.155417/

:Niranjan.

 

[henrit]

Thanks so much, Niranjan. Surely I'll try your Himalayan salt toner on my atypical kallitype prints.

 

[henrit]

Thanks so much, Niranjan. Surely I'll try your Himalayan salt toner on my atypical kallitype prints.

As promised, I made the test, but had no success. However, I can´t get to any conclusions, since the salt I've got is under suspiction: I found three brands, each one with a different look...

 

[bernard_L]

T-55 toner, said to be the same as KSRT, contains additionally ammonium chloride. See:
https://www.largeformatphotography....urium-Toning&p=1058255&viewfull=1#post1058255
and other recipes in that same thread.

 

[nmp]

As promised, I made the test, but had no success. However, I can´t get to any conclusions, since the salt I've got is under suspiction: I found three brands, each one with a different look...

Which one did you use?