a want to buy a cheap but good viewcamera, any help?

[Nick Zentena]

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/b&j_press/b&j_press.htm

Press camera.

It's hard to confuse the two -)

 

[Nick Zentena]

The Busch will tend to be more money. The B&J name usually equals a discount versus anything else. IIRC the Busch had a smaller lens board. Which might matter with bigger lenses.

 

[game]

sorry, I did not underfully understood the sentence:

"The B&J name usually equals a discount versus anything else."

could you try to explain this in different words?

Bottomline: the B&J features much more movements, and is cheaper.
So for me, its better?

thanks in advance! game

 

[Nick Zentena]

B&J name is a negative for some people. They didn't have the best reputation in the world. The same way people will pay extra for a Deardoff they pay less for a B&J. Agfa/Ansco is in the middle. People will pay more then a B&J but not the high prices a Deardoff might get.

If you don't mind the B&J name and the camera does what you want no reason not to buy it.

 

[game]

haha I got confused here for a moment.

three types of budget camera's are in my ebay watchlist:

the busch pressman, which is a presscamera but looks nice
the burke and james watson press, which is a presscamera too,
and the burke and james watson view, wich is the viewcamera.

if I understand everyone correctly the latter is the one that is intersting for me? true?

thanks Game

 

[mjs]

One thing to keep in mind is the focal length of the lenses you will be using. Contrary to a lot of folks, I personally like using longer focal length lenses and don't find a lot of use for wide-angle (less than about 125mm) lenses in 4x5. For 4x5, my favorite lens was a 240mm, closely followed by 360mm. My choices in newer 4x5 cameras, therefore, did not include cameras such as the Tachihara and Shen Hao and others like them, simply because 12" - 13" (300mm-330mm) of bellows draw was insufficient. Both my B&J and Ansco 5x7 cameras had between 14" and 15" (360mm - 375mm) of bellows draw, making them just usable for most of what I was interested in doing. Now that I'm mostly working in 8x10, of course, everything is different...

A press camera will be made of metal and have very few movements. There may be a rangefinder on top, and/or a large handle attached to the side. The tailboard camera is made of wood, often (but not always!) has a red bellows (for B&J) or yellow-green bellows (Agfa/Ansco.) Let me see if I can find some pictures for you...

Ok. The press camera picture is of a Busch Pressman, but most of these old press cameras look very similar. This one has a lot of options on it, like the wire frame "action" finder. The B&J picture of a model they called the "Watson" and is a 4x5 model. This one looks to be in excellent condition, like new. The 5x7 model is pretty much identical, just larger. Most B&J tailboard cameras (and Agfa/Ansco too,) will be a shade of gray unless they have been refinished (the wood underneath is hard maple.) That's one easy way to tell at a glance. This particular camera appears to be a brown color, which I personally have never seen but what the heck, it looks nice. Both of these pictures came from US E-bay, by the way, and are for sale.

mjs

 

[Nick Zentena]

(and Agfa/Ansco too,) will be a shade of gray

Agfa/Ansco used to sell at least two finish grades. The grey paint was the higher grade. A nicer wood finish was the lower grade. How times have changed

 

[Nick Zentena]

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/agfa/page6.html

Universal Agfa. With the attached extenstion so you can't lose it.

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/agfa/page11.html

Standard model with shorter bellows.

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/agfa/page7.html

On this one you can see the grey painted 8x10 cost 10% more then the nicer wood finish model. Even bigger jump in price for the 5x7

 

[game]

hmmm,

I have been reading into the b&j cameras but everyone seems the empasize that this a really loose and sloppy design. Sure I wanted budget but coming from a sinar f2 and mamiya rz I think the b&j is too much of a bad thing.

Maybe just save a little longer and go for a shen hao or something ...
the b&j seems to be more of a till 300 dollar budget.

any ideas for a tadd larger budget, say 800 dollar?

kind regards Game

 

[sun of sand]

I'm sure that if you're patient enough a nice camera will make itself available. I'd check craigslist in the larger areas and if there ain't nothing over there locally I'd try to make some friends here on APUG that wouldn't mind buying/shipping for you. I've seen people do it on other sites. I got my mint everything Calumet wood field (tachihara) with 90mm 4.5, 150mm, handfuls of holders, 55 film, polaroid holder, pelican case for $500. I then 2 weeks later found on Los Angeles Craigslist nearly the same of deal for $600. I didn't buy it but I thought about it just to flip and make some $ back.
Get to know people in larger areas.

 

[Nick Zentena]

hmmm,

I have been reading into the b&j cameras but everyone seems the empasize that this a really loose and sloppy design. S

Remeber the camera is going to be 50+ years old. But being a woodie if you are reasonably handy anything can be fixed. The B&J woodies do tend to be floppier then the Anscos etc. But I think they are also lighter.

I don't know what a new Shen 4x5 is . $600?

 

[mjs]

For a budget of US$800, something is going to have to be used! I believe that the current US price for both Tachihara and Shen Hao is about US$600 or so. I don't troll E-bay much but I have seen package deals (camera, lens, film holders, etc.) in the past. I recall the observation that used Tachihara and Shen Hao cameras brought almost as much on E-bay as new cameras did, and wondering why people did that.

You mentioned having a Sinar monorail camera. Do you have a lens or lenses for it? Do they have shutters, or are they in the Sinar DB mount where they don't have individual shutters? If you have lenses and they each have a shutter, they will work just fine on a different camera. You will need lensboards of the correct size but they are neither expensive nor difficult to make for yourself if you wish.

mjs

 

[game]

I have two lenses 150mm and 210mm with copal shutters mounted on sinar boards. I can indeed switch boards easily and save lots of money ...

I also have a loupe a focusing cloth a binoculair loupe, readloadholder, cassettes, etc. etc.

So basicly I just need a body.

One question:

is it possible to fold up the shen hao of tachihara with a standard lens mounted?

Thanks game

 

[rootberry]

My tachihara 4x5 would not fold up with my 150 fujinon w mounted unfortunately..

 

[game]

I have been reading into this some more,
It seems there are basicly folding cameras and non folding.
Ebony produces both types, but as it seems, so does shen hao.
For as dar as I can judge now, I defenitly like the non folding design.
The setup is faster, and I hardly ever use telelensen.

now I have to do two things, find a european store that sells it, and get some money...

can any help on the finding a store part, and maybe comment on the folding/non-folding issue.

many thanks, kind regards Game

 

[game]

I have found some places that sell them in europe.
They are more expensive here than in the US, but still buying in the us is no option with taxes and sending costs.

750 euro seems to be the bottom price here for the non folding version...

So now I know what to do...

if anyone has something to add, please do so.
many thanks Game

 

[game]

In the same price lequae are the Toyo 45cf , and the tachihara.
Can anyone comment on the differences?


Thanks game

 

[mjs]

From reading and a quick examination, the Toyo 45 CF is a neat idea for a lightweight field camera with (to me) one huge flaw: no rear movements. Even for simple landscape photography, I often find that a little bit of swing or tilt is extremely helpful and this camera can't do it. The Tachihara is a well-known camera, lightweight and field-tested for many years. It is limited in bellows draw (13", 330mm or so,) but works well with lenses between 90mm and 210mm or so. I know someone who is very happy with his, and has been for years. His longest lens is 210mm, frequently hikes with it, and uses both Polaroid and Kodak Readyload holders with it.

mjs

 

[Marco B]

Hi Game,

I am living in the Netherlands too, but bought my brand new Tachihara in the US in 2004 via the internetshop of Midwest Photo Exchange, since I couldn't find a shop selling it in the Netherlands. Yes, it cost me some extra for taxes and all, but with the current exchange rate, it wasn't too bad. The original price was 595 dollar, and I ended up paying some 600 euro or so in total.

Of course I still needed lenses, and bought them second hand at ABRO in Zaandam (http://www.fotoabro.nl/). You definitely need to visit this shop once if you're living in the Netherlands and you really want to venture into LF. They have lot's of second hand stuff for large and midformat photography (both camera's, lenses and accessories), the only shop of it's kind I know of in the Netherlands. It doesn't look much, the out- or inside of this shop, and Zaandam of all places..., but that's not what you should be concerned about. If you really need something, go there!

Yes, my lenses WERE expensive, so a 500 euro budget is really a challenge, but I have never regretted buying all the stuff.

About the Tachihara:
There is one aspect you probably do not have thought of: you may end up spending more time in social talk with curious complete strangers, than photographing ;-)...

It is jaw dropping beautiful!!! Cherry red wood color, brass looking like gold, and you with a dark cloth over your head... When I spend 2 weeks in Siena with this camera, people were looking all the time...

Technically, it's stable and flexible enough to do it all. I only found some of the knobs to be a bit fiddly to use, but not a real problem. And yes, the first few times you wonder how it all folds in and out...

I have successfully used a 75 mm wide angle lens (Schneider Kreuznach Super Angolon 5.6/75) *without* the need for a recessed lensboard, making handling of the shutter much easier.

For some photographic results, see my website:

http://www.boeringa.demon.nl/

Happy photographing,

Marco