a UV enlarger?

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keithwms

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There is a proximity exposure problem if you scan. The problem doesn't occur along the fast scan axis, but it does along the slow axis.

Suppose you scan a square, as you said; when you return to the next line down, your dose will overlap somewhat with the previous line and also the next. This would have a tendency to create lines of higher exposure.

An obvious solution is to expand the beam only in one dimension, and use that to do a line scan, like what you do in a typical flatbed. This could be done with a cylindrical lens.

This approach should work for a laser or high-power UV lamp.
 

holmburgers

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Is it possible to just project/enlarge a negative with light from a laser? Or is getting it nicely spread out the trick?
 

keithwms

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Is it possible to just project/enlarge a negative with light from a laser? Or is getting it nicely spread out the trick?

The beam is typically ~5mm diameter, and so then if you use a typical ~10x expander you can probably cover a medium format neg. The beam will have Gaussian falloff so you'd throw the tails away and work with the center.

A HeCd laser typically has a nice mode structure and is CW, so relatively easy to work with. Focusing would require a fluorescent screen, not too hard, but I suspect that most of the APO process lenses should be up to the task with no refocus.

The main issue is how much power can you put on a neg before damaging it? It just needs to be tried. Maybe I will, if I get time.

This raises another question that has never been satisfactorily answered, in my view: what is the ideal center wavlength of the light source for the desired kind of printing? If somebody tells me that I can probably recommend a cheap laser to do the job. The 325nm line of a HeCd may not be the right choice.
 
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holmburgers

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I think 370nm is the peak sensitivity of dichromated gelatin (DCG).
 

holmburgers

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I'm having an easy day at work and that means more time to think about such important world problems as the Israel/Palestine conflict, the death & succession of Kim Jong Il, the 11th dimension, but most importantly, analog photography.

Why couldn't we put together a decent lens made of acrylic to use in a normal enlarger setup with UV lights? A lot of people today are wearing plastic glasses which of course, are lenses that must be of reasonable optical quality. Also, since we're talking about an enlarger lens, the tolerances might (perhaps) be much less strenuous than say, a taking lens. For instance, it could be designed to be optimal at only one f/stop, and a limited range of magnifications. Not to mention, since it is only going to focus UV it wouldn't necessarily need to have good correction, especially for the whole visual range.

Thoughts?
 

holmburgers

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It's certainly worth a shot. I'm currently looking for more information on plastic lenses... but yeah, even a lowly meniscus lens would be worth trying out as a proof of concept.

Be tempted... be very tempted... :wink:
 

steven_e007

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Believe it or not - I have actually started work on my experimental UV enlarger (yep - the DIY and the Christmas shopping is finally all done :smile: )

Not got anything worth showing anyone yet, just a load of soldered up LEDs.... but here are my thoughts and findings so far:

UV Light:
UV is a wide spectrum of light, like Infrared. Visible light is just a tiny slice in the middle of around 720 nM to around 405nM This is where UV is usually considered to start. It goes all the way up to around 10nM - after which point we are talking X-rays.

Now - it seems that most of the photographically actinic rays that are useful to us are around 400 to 350nm - that is, the area just outside the visible band. These are in what is called the UV-A band. This extends up to 315nM After this is UV-B, then C, then far UV and eventually X-rays.

Sunburn, skin damage, cataracts etc. are mostly caused by UV-B. UV-C are 'germicidal' - used for sterilization and to be avoided at all costs - as are anything else of shorter wavelengths.

Lenses:

It appears that crown glass is pretty transparent to UV-A and B. Flint glass is the problem, this starts to fall off in transmission fairly sharply after about 390 nM. UV also seems not to like cemented lenses either.

Consequently, people wanting to take UV pictures require special UV lenses, because they are interested in frequencies well into the UV-B band for photographing flowers and for forensic testing.

BUT.... we are only just dipping into the UV-A region, so if we choose carefully and select a lens without balsam and with a minimum of flint glass, we may get quite a good transmission. I found an interesting article on a site dedicated to UV photography that actually recommended an APO Nikon enlarging lens as a cheap UV macro lens as it had fairly low UV light loss and no UV focus shift, at least at the longer wavelengths.

LEDs:

UV LEDs usually emit around 400nM to 385nM. Some are available up to around 365nM, but these are rare and low output.

So - the good news is that LEDs are working in the 'safe' area of UV (UV-A isn't completely safe, but it is at least the 'least dangerous' and at the lowish levels we are talking about shouldn't burn anyone or fry anyones eyeballs unless we do something really silly) - and also we might be fairly near the required frequencies for some alternative processes.

LEDs have a fairly low light output, compared to a fluorescent tube or an arc light... but these light sources are omni-directional. LEDs have a tiny output - but it is in a narrow directional beam, usually 20 degrees. They are also cheap. I am experimenting with a bank of 24 LEDs, covering an area just slightly larger than a 35mm neg - all carefully aligned to project on the same spot. Hopefully this means most of the light goes where we want it - through the enlarger optics.

Very roughly the diameter of the circle of light produced is about a third of the distance from the LED. So, if the LEDs are 10mm above the neg and the lens is 50mm below it, then the patch of light is about 20mm across. That is a lot bigger than the pupil size of the enlarging lens - and as the lens is lowered to focus it gets bigger, so more light is lost.

Would a simple condenser lens, maybe in CR39 (plastic) increase the light intensity by improving the focus more than it attenuates it by light loss? I don't know - but that is an experiment I hope to try.

Another big advantage of LEDs is they are very efficient, so we get a lot more light to heat than from most other sources.

It is very difficult to compare light intensities from LEDs and other sources. Light intensity is usually measured in Lumens, which is a measure of luminous flux and this isn't frequency specific and most sources produce light over a range of frequencies.

LED output is usually measured in mC - (milli candelas). In this case it will be at a specific frequency (or very narrow range) and candelas are measures luminosity of light per unit of angle - so we aren't comparing the same things. Trying to get my head around this drove me nuts, my IQ isn't high enough. :blink:

Easiest and most practical will be to contact print a cyanotype in the sun and compare it with the LEDs.
Cyanotypes are notoriously slow, but I have the chemicals to hand. At least if it works with this - it ought to work with the other alternative processes.

So, the plan:

Step 1: Contact print a (small) negative with the sun and with the LEDs and see if the light source is viable.
Step 2: Try shining the light source through some lenses and see how much light is lost (I'm lucky enough to have a laser power meter to hand - I can take some measurements).
Step 3: IF it looks like there might be enough light available to get a print before frying the negative, try mounting the LEDs and lens in an enlarger.
Step 4: See whether a condenser makes it better or worse.

I have a hunch that the LEDs simply won't be bright enough - mainly because if it was that easy someone would else would have done it by now. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained... :wink:
 

holmburgers

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Very impressive Steve, I know I'm not the only one who will follow your progress with intense interest!

FWIW, I just picked up a SolarTech SolarMeter Model 5.0 on eBay for $45 ($175 new). These measure UVA+B and would be great for evaluating such a project, though it sounds like your laser meter is well suited too.

Best of luck
 

alipstadt

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Just stumbled across this thread, and while UV (capture) interests me and while I don't have a need for this now, all things worth contemplating do-

Tossing budget aside for the thoughtexperiment part, how would HMIs with adjusted flitration do, perhaps through a Jenoptik 60/4 Macro which might do well for a flat field projection? From the scanning raster approach, a lightjet with an alternative light source?

Now, assuming those might be viable approaches, HMIs can be rented almost anywhere; I don't know about Jenoptik macros, though I do know Adorama stocks them for sale - with a batch printing approach perhaps a cheap frame can be built and the source and optics rented when there is sufficient workload? Even old lightjet/lamdas are still pricey, but I have heard of DIY jobs - perhaps the homebrew CNC/3D printer people might have something to offer?

Don't slam me if these are silly or impractical - I'm just starting to think through the problem. Also, I've had three glasses of wine. I'm sure I stand by these ideas, though. As a start, mind you. :smile:
 
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keithwms

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I'm not an expert but HMIs and all mercury-associated lamps have spikey spectra that may not do the job for particular processes. It just has to be tried. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if these lamps used glass designed to eliminate the spectrum below 400nm or so (and above the visible)- nobody wants to get hit with the UV mercury lines for extended periods :smile: So that just has to be checked. You could look up the lamp spectrum and experiment. Notice that the lamp spectrum and the bulb spectrum may not be the same- some lamps have extra glass over the bulb for safety.
 

alipstadt

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Yeah, no doubt - I should have been clearer about the adjusted filtration - I didn't just mean adding blocking filters, but removal of coated glass housings. That's why I have uncoated bulbs for my Quantums :smile:
 

keithwms

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Yep, you cna remove all glass between the bulb and the emulsion and probably get something. My only concern woudl be that the mercury spikes may not sit on top of the peak sensitivity of the emulsion, in which case you're just making ozone :smile:
 

alipstadt

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Well, whatever falloff off peak is enough to create printed burn risks for HMI use - you know that you know what you're doing when health and safety warning labels provide you hope that your technique will work. ;-) As you said, in the end, what's being attempted is likely outside of the white papers provided by manufacturers - practical experimentation with notes on exposure density would be needed. I could even imagine that taking metal polish to remove optical coatings might be a step in a successful process.

I also say this in mind of and not excluding the other suggestions: concentrating mirrors - on non-silicon substrates, perhaps - might help.

I would assume anyone technically competent to even ask this question, let alone think about solutions, is aware of the potential for SERIOUS risks to eye, skin, and (through gaseous by-product) lung health. Eye protection and timed, unmanned exposure are probable givens here. Then again, I assume most of us discussing this have years of experience with heavy metal solutions and not managed to die (yet). Kids, don't try this at home.

Smoke break. :wink:

God, I love (and miss) real photographers. Somehow I think it has less to do with the recording medium and more with the size of the stacks of MSDSs that are understood and ignored.
 
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keithwms

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I'll give the 325nm HeCd laser a go soon, I've just been too busy. If it works then I'll certainly post the results and details. I also have access to all manner of unshielded D2 and Hg lamps and concentrators etc but it's quite a task to get a uniform exposure from those. D2 lamps would be ideal - the spectrum is quite flat and smooth from 190nm up - but the things create a lot of ozone and they are inefficient.
 

steven_e007

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The LED enlarger:
An update.

I got very little done over the holidays. Despite the free time I was compelled to eat and drink too much and be sociable. :whistling:

I did find a little time to wire up a test block of 24 LEDs - to cover a 35mm film area - and run a few tests.

Reading up a little more on LEDs I find that they have a limited service life. Run at a low current they can last tens of thousands of hours or more. Run 'bright' and the output quickly falls off in intensity. It can drop by 50% in a few dozen hours. Considering we could be working with long exposures, I decided to under-run the diodes, at least to begin with. No sense it trying to do tests and take measurements with a constantly declining intensity. They were rated at 30mA, so I calculated that I could put four banks in parallel, each bank having six serial diodes fed by a 470 ohm resistor. I have a 30 volts power supply to hand which is adjustable, so I was able to tweak the voltage to give me 20mA.

The first thing I noticed is that the diodes are VIOLET. I was thinking ultra-violet might mean I need to bounce them of some fluorescent paper to see the light or something. No - these LEDs are definitely well in the visible range. That is the trouble with buying a big bag off eBay. I think the seller labelled these diodes as 'ultra violet' in the same way as he might have called them 'super violet' or even 'awesome violet'. I'd say they had their peak around 420nM or so.

Undaunted, I tried them as a light source on a cyanotype.
I am in the UK and the shortest day was only three weeks back. Mid day sunlight is feeble, I measured the EV on a grey card on a grey day at 10.5.
This printed out a 6 X 9 negative I had in about 90 minutes. A bit longer would not have hurt. I repeated the exposure under the LEDs for 90 minutes at about 8 inches away. I'd say the density was similar - maybe slightly weaker from the LEDs.

Key points are these:

* The first LEDs were not really UV at all and are not really in the ideal frequency range. They are, however, still quite actinic for cyanotype.
* I am under-running them by 33%, but they still gave enough light to compare with feeble UK winter daylight.
* They produced virtually no heat at all.

This might mean that a LED UV box is possible. I used the LEDs spaced one every 6mm. Using the same 'spread' this would mean something like 1400 diodes to cover 10 X 8. Economically this might be quite reasonable, LEDs are very cheap, but I personally wouldn't want to be soldering up 2800 connections!

So far, the LED enlarger is still pie in the sky. I haven't yet tested how much light is lost in the glass optics, but it will be some and then we must factor in the area rule for an enlargement. With a starting point of 90 minutes it is obviously pointless.

But... I have just soldered up a different batch of diodes. These were labelled as '390 nM' and so are hopefully true UV LEDs this time.

I'll report back.
 
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Thanks for all the hard work and going through the expense of running your test. I do know that electronic nerds are building UV light boxes for exposing printed circuit boards. I don't know the emulsion for the photo-resist reacts the same as alternative emulsions like cyanotypes. I'm look forward to your reports.
 

Steve Smith

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I don't know the emulsion for the photo-resist reacts the same as alternative emulsions like cyanotypes.

I think it's similar. Some screen printing emulsion is very similar to gum bichromate too. It's not much more than potassium dichromate in PVA glue.

I have used the same UV source for both PCB photo resist and screen printing emulsions.


Steve.
 
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So gum arabic is like PVA glue?
 

Steve Smith

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So gum arabic is like PVA glue?

I was thinking more of the potassium dichromate part rather than the rest of it. They both become insoluble in water when exposed to UV light though.


Steve.
 
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Wow that's interesting! I've done gum printing before, but I don't think I have the courage to try PVA glue. With PVA glue, you don't have to worry about the emulsion going moldy.
 
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