I can sum up this thread with one word.
Ugh
A year and a half and over 5000 posts, seriously? I remember back when Stone joined and he was like a bull in a china shop with his slurry of simple questions. Not much has changed. Might as well call this place StonePUG at this point.
I don't ever ink jet print, only chemical prints with a light jet optical "printer" on RA4 paper.
I don't use any IR dust removal at all.
I don't use Viewscan or SilverFast, just Epson scan software as it makes more sense to me.
I can't for the life of me get silverfast to make a good scan (when I can even get the program to function at all).
I don't understand a lot of the "silver mode" stuff that must be specific to your scanning software and is not universal. I have 3 options.
B&W
Color negative
Transparency
That's it
And then 8 or 16 bit B&W or 16 or 48 bit color.
I always choose the higher bit.
Anyway I think I'm just particular, possibly more than I need to be.
Nothing wrong with simple questions. Except when they've been asked over an over because the person asking is too lazy to use the search window at the top of this page.
Nothing wrong with simple questions. Except when they've been asked over an over because the person asking is too lazy to use the search window at the top of this page.
That's a good place to start, you get some actual facts instead of opinions.you have to start somewhere.... I've never taken a class or learned anything in school about film or developing
That's a good place to start, you get some actual facts instead of opinions.
Nothing wrong with simple questions. Except when they've been asked over an over because the person asking is too lazy to use the search window at the top of this page.
I use the search bar and didn't help with anything that was what I'm talking about which is moving from Pam processing to rotary and having edge effects issues, if you can find a similar thread which describes the issue that I was questioning, please feel free to show me and prove me wrong but I did a search I will tell you that.
As with printing in the darkroom, there is skill involved. It's not all about the equipment.
I don't ever ink jet print, only chemical prints with a light jet optical "printer" on RA4 paper.
I don't use Viewscan or SilverFast, just Epson scan software as it makes more sense to me.
I can't for the life of me get silverfast to make a good scan (when I can even get the program to function at all).
And then 8 or 16 bit B&W or 16 or 48 bit color.
I always choose the higher bit.
Anyway I think I'm just particular, possibly more than I need to be.
And what's wrong with asking simple questions, you have to start somewhere.... I've never taken a class or learned anything in school about film or developing, they didn't have that option in my schools. So I don't have anyone to ask simple questions and learn from, this is my only place to come, if APUG didn't exist I probably would be shooting Digital... That's not even an exaggeration, I was about to give up on the pursuit of film when I found this place.
Sorry if that upsets you.
Might as well call this place StonePUG at this point.
I'll be the first one to ... [snip].
I'll be the first one to agree with you, but shooting film and scanning it on an Epson V600/700/750 with the expectation of getting results that exhibit truly accurate reproduction is like trying to use a 3 element enlarging lens to print 20x24, corner-to-corner sharp, exhibition prints on an unaligned, rickety, old enlarger. I used one for 4 years at school, and it got to the point where I would just scan prints while I was there, and bring my film home during breaks to use the dedicated machine we have in the studio at home.
Unless your RA4 lightjets are being done on a Lambda, inkjets from a good Epson printer will nearly almost always be sharper, and always better paper, most likely (Museo Silver Rag...I've died and gone to heaven)...unless of course you're after the whole c-print look.
As for not using VueScan or Silverfast...scanning is hard, just like every other part of photography. Epson scan is a POS. Spend the 80 dollars on Vuescan and teach yourself to use it properly. The bits aren't important if you're not using them well.
Never stop asking questions, especially the simple ones. But pedantically discussing the intricacies of a bunch of chemicals within a set of arbitrary limitations is not the best way to interact with the forum. I've never taken a class in photography technique, either. Essentially all of my BFA schooling was in effective studio practice and art history, and we were responsible for honing our techniques on our own time. I suppose the advantage to not taking a class is that you don't have a bunch of arbitrary rules floating around in your head (unless you impose them on yourself, in which case... just stop doing that).
It's always something new with you...and it always ends up with excuses for why you can't/won't do something.
Our professors at school confronted torrents of excuses and self-imposed limitations with:
Art is hard, if you're not willing to be invested in it, then maybe this isn't for you.
That shit stings, I know, but breaking free of all this nonsense and just focusing on making a system (haha the broken record spins around once again) that is simple, consistent, and reliable is, and should be, the ONLY concern you have with your work right now. I have written this multiple times before to you, but STOP making excuses, to those whose opinions/advice you reject here, but more importantly TO YOURSELF. You've convinced yourself that you're a better photographer than you actually are, and you've convinced yourself that you're doing the right thing in going to large format and all this brouhaha about using 4x5 now and yaddayadda. I would hazard that everyone here is sick of hearing this tripe, and if you're going to spout off about things in the way you do, commit to your words. You're going LF? Sell your Mamiya and lenses, that way you can stop constantly bitching about not being able to afford photography stuff.
You spend so much of your time wondering about technical variables and boring shit that you completely forget to think about the creative, and art practice side of things. You need to visualize a concept of what you're interested in photographing (these trite poorly lit pictures of scantily clad women are really not the best you can do, is it?) and involve yourself in it.
It doesn't even matter if you're shooting film or digital. But if you shoot film...as I've said before (and will say again)...get RID of the variables, other than creative impulse.
Load the Toyo's holders up, and go photograph something for 3 hours. Then do it again the next day. and the next day, and the next day, and the next day. Shoot every day for 3 hours, leave your cellphone on silent. Shoot only TXT (I know that $300 box of Double X was a really great idea...), use one lens, shoot things you want, shoot things you lust after, shoot things you hate, shoot things that make you want to throw yourself off a cliff, and then shoot things that make you feel like you're bathing in ambrosia... shoot things that make you feel strongly about something, but for the love of god...shoot as much as you post.
Or at least make a concerted effort to make pictures you actually care about, instead of being a masturbatory armchair expert that can only make half-assed excuses for why his pictures aren't up to snuff.
Wow...
You obviously don't know anything about me or my habits...
I shoot film almost EVERY DAY....
I spend hours at a time wandering and shooting with my 4x5 and come back with only 3 images because each image took an hour to compose. Because I'm careful and contemplative about my imagery.
I'm in no way an armchair photographer...
Everyone here has their own ideas they share but expect me to follow them just because they said it, well I couldn't possibly satisfy all YOUR wants because they are so varying.
I listen to the ones that make sense and it's made me better.
I don't make "excuses" I give reasons for why I have limitations. Many are financial. And I'm altering my career right now actually getting out of the acting business. So perhaps soon I can take a class or two and many other things, but I'm literally always on call and often get a call at 9pm asking if I can be in NY at 6am, I once had to skip my own birthday party because I got called. If you don't go you get blacklisted and then don't get work for months ... It's not easy and don't presume to know my life better than me, it's both arrogant and insulting.
I shoot both models and mountains, and both require different equipment. I won't sell something unless I don't use it for 6 months. And I do sell the stuff I don't use....
With rare exception (Eastman Double-X) I've settled on HP5+ Acros100 and Velvia50 and the rest is just stock I'm running through and essentially done testing with the exception of Delta100 as a replacement for Acros100 in non-night and non-spectral critical images (to save money). Yes everyone says "just pick one" which to me sounds like burying your head in the sand, I should at least see how a film performs under "normal" conditions before I choose one to specialize in.
And with rate exception... Those who can't do... Teach... So I only take advice from than that is procedural, not things like "you just can't do that" because I often find those people to be the ones who are closed minded and will never progress, even if I'm wrong, I'll have tried.
Yes I like seeing a chemical print, I find the ink jet images to lack soul...
Yes I believe it's a lamda style light-jet.
The kodak metallic paper I often use is by no means of lesser quantity than the crappy ink jet paper out there.
Unless I were using a pigment printer, I would just never even bother wasting my money and time (and cheating a client) by selling them an ink jet image. I've done sun exposure comparisons and ink jet images within one year deteriorate so horribly it's embarrassing...
And I own Silverfast, I'm not buying a THIRD scanning software... But I'll say that Epson Scan is in no way a POS at all, it works fast, well, and easily, can you say that about SilverFast? Hell no, sure you might have more "control" over the scan, but if you shot the image well in the first place, you wouldn't really need all those adjustments would you?
Ok I'm done, you frustrated me and I felt compelled to respond to your splatter of misinformation...
i doubt that its anyones business...Wow...
You obviously don't know anything about me or my habits...
I shoot film almost EVERY DAY....
I spend hours at a time wandering and shooting with my 4x5 and come back with only 3 images because each image took an hour to compose. Because I'm careful and contemplative about my imagery.
I'm sorry to hear that your career is so overwhelming, Stone, I really am. I'm legitimately not saying these things to you with malicious intentions, but you seem to be veritably stuck in a rut regarding the photographic process, and ignoring the most important part of the medium as an art form. Use the anxiety you have about your spot in life right now to influence your photography. Nothing is better than a hard spot in life to mainline some energy into your art making endeavors. Instead of running away from your problems with photography, use it to beat them into submission. Go read Nausea by Sartre, or Notes From Underground.
Shooting film everyday doesn't mean shit to an artist if they're not examining an ongoing thought or idea through the process of making photographs. I shoot film practically every day too, but sometimes it's just snapshots of stuff around my house. Big fuckin' deal.
Lambda style? No. It's either a Lambda, or not. A Lambda can expose b/w fiber paper, in addition to RA4, and at higher DPI than other laser/digital exposure units.
You've obviously only been looking at crappy inkjet prints, because good prints from good scans or good digital photographic files on good cotton-rag or baryta paper blow the everloving fuck out of any c-print I've ever seen in terms of overall image quality. Show me a color print you've had made with RA-4 on nice 310GSM baryta paper recently, I'd love to see it. I know, and have worked with multiple photographers very, very, closely who sell their inkjet prints regularly for 3k to 5k dollars, often more. Having handled the work first hand, I can tell you, those prints are no slouch.
How does an inkjet print lack soul but a LED exposed print has it? The whole "soul" crock of shit is only applicable to hand made prints IMO, and at that it's a word I hear more often used by the kind of Lomography apologists that think a shitty negative with tons of dust on it is "more real" than a clean print.
Silverfast? Learn it if you're serious about scanning your work. I did. It's not about compensating the negative, it's about getting the full range of information so you can manipulate the negative in PS/LR as you would in the darkroom. Oh wait, you can't because don't know PS or LR. Money? FFS if you're the starving artist you claim to be I'm surprised you haven't pirated every creative software known to man. I know I seriously contemplated it but never actually didwhen I was in school.
Good, you have a medium, fast b/w film choice, and a chrome. Use only one of them for a month. HP5 does well during the day, and at night, so it shouldn't give you any problems. Also, I just saw you put in a PM about 20 rolls of Neopan 400...
Guess what? I do and teach! That's right! I teach weekly black and white courses in Brooklyn! For fun! In the evening!
Christ, we're all just monkeys anyway.
This seems contrary to the DDx project..?All the films which I don't seem to have to fiddle with and just work seem to be the ones that either don't transcend formats, or are no longer made... Or are ridiculously expensive....So I have settled on what makes sense in the long run.
I was a subscriber until this year, but guess what, I'm a poor artist, too.
I've also seen your tumblr, your etsy, and your instagram. Believe me, I don't devote the amount of time to writing posts like those above without being aware of what the work we are discussing looks like.
Last word on the inkjet prints: They're still fade free, and those that I have at home have been in direct sunlight for hours a day for the past 4-5 years.
Stone, I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for in your materials, but rather in technique.
If you want that perceived nail sharp edge in dark/bright adjacencies on your negatives, also known as 'edge effects' you shouldn't be doing rotary processing.
You are far better off diluting your Rodinal and extend your developing time and agitation intervals. Rodinal is as good as anything with respect to creating edge effects.
Otherwise, the liquid developer I linked to a long time ago in this thread TFX-2 from Photographers' Formulary (not pyro, not powder, and sharp as hell) will probably be your best bet. That along with the new FX-39 that ADOX is shipping to Freestyle, a Geoffrey Crawley developer previously sold by Paterson as FX-39. They stopped and ADOX picked it up and are now making it.
Other than that, I sort of want to echo what many others here are urging you to do - shoot more and stop worrying so much about the chemistry and materials. I really hope you will. I've been through the whole developer and film stock rigamarole that you're currently going through years ago, and the worst part of that, besides not really learning anything about my chosen films and developers, is that when I print old negatives I have a very hard time due to how inconsistent the negatives are. That inconsistency is a definite side effect of being much too focused on the materials themselves. I get much farther when I simply focus on the photographs. Nobody walks up to my work when I show it and say, wow you must have used Tri-X and Rodinal for this photograph. No, instead they tell me that they are drawn to the subject matter or that the photograph is beautifully printed. At least for me there's a lesson in there that I hope we can all benefit from.
Hi StoneI kind of agree, I appreciate someone standing up for me on the "personal attacks" but I don't recall anything THAT terrible lol.
Well. Let's just simmer I guess, let's get back on topic, in theory, if I were to mess with mixing developers, is there anything I could add to my favorite developer (Rodinal) in order to enhance the edges in rotary while not having to mix an entire batch?
What I mean is, I could simply dilute some kind of specific powder chemical into a dropper bottle, which I would then add drops to a regular working solution bottle of Rodinal developer each round that would enhance the edges when I do rotary processing? Smaller bottles of liquid chemistry that I would add to a pre-mixed bottle would be an acceptable compromise (but non-pyro of course).
Man I'm gonna get flack for this question....
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