I don't believe your crazy, but----------us folks that simply can't operate in the manner that you suggest on an annual basis because it actually would be too costly for our means---------should just QUIT! Right.
Apart from the other good advice that you have given Mr. Carnie, this part is simply BS.
I think my message is about becoming a better printer, unfortunately it takes practice, and if purchasing paper is not possible then I don't have a reliable answer for you. Paper can be purchased on the internet in rolls and cut down for proofing purposes at a very reasonable price. My methods are aimed at printers who have a darkroom and actually make prints and are willing to purchase the materials
I am sorry if you think this is BS and it is obvious my comments are not aimed at you.
as I said just my 2cents
No animosity here, I'm just talking, and my previous post was a bit too strong. You have a lot of good things to say that folks can learn from, but I disagree with the notion you made.
Of course it takes practice, no argument, to do anything really well for most requires practice and a "stick to it" mentality, of which I have plenty of........but not always plenty of resources, like many here. Purchasing paper is possible, but you imply that to become a better printer, you must do so at all cost or find something else to do.
Although it may not have been directed at me specifically, I specifically, am in with a lot of folks that are of limited resources. I'm no spring chicken in this activity, I'm a pretty good printer if I say so myself even though I don't make a living at it (and could not make a living at it), but I did not become a better printer by ignoring the means by which I have to live----I became a better printer by making better negatives, it was an absolute direct result of doing so. So, IMHO, noone here has to take that approach to become a better printer. That's just my two cents I guess, and am probably overdrawn considering the OP.
I think the other thing Bob was getting across is that nothing teaches more than actually doing the printing. Repeatedly until you get it. While most cannot afford this practice, he does have a point. Especially from a business perspective like Elevator. Time is money, and being good at eeking out all that one can from a negative for a client, quickly, intuitively and nailing the print every time is what they are after. You are only as good as your last print, and staying in practice is very relevant in that regard. For us lower down the scale from an output and budget perspective, our workflow maybe slower, and more laid back. The principle is still the same, practicing the printing, understanding or reading your negs effectively to interpret the many ways of printing each negative, and toning of each print, all come easier the more you do it.
Then you'd better go digital or hybrid.
A horrible day printing is better than an average day doing anything else, at least for me.
I am a violin maker and make custom "handmade" violin for professional musicians. Several years ago, I sat down and calculated the number of man hours I had spent in the work shop learning my craft. Reading books studying violins made by Stradivari and Guarnari. Making saw dust so to speak. Some complete failures and some successes. At that time I calculated that I had spent more than 11,000 hours working, taking baby and giant steps forward. Making mistakes that became firewood...but in the end there is no substitute for putting the chisel to the wood.
So I agree that the only real way to truly learn what you are doing is to "do it", whatever "it" is. You will either find the journey, success and failure, enjoyable and continue to move forward or decide that you are satisfied with being mediocre.
Obviously there are some people that have more success during the learning process. They seem to have a "talent" for music, photography, painting etc. and find their calling.
Having said all of that, forums like APUG provide a virtual classroom so that the people with experience and proven results can become the professors for those of us who have yet to achieve the skill level necessary to find our own way. Your experience helps shorten the journey and keep us from wasting time and resources in a direction that is completely wrong. There is an old saying "where there is a will, there is a way" and if you want to learn you will find a way to move forward.
Unlimited time and money make make the journey faster but may not shorten the distance. For me and my violin making skills, I have not reached the destination and continue to move forward in my quest to make the next violin better than the last.
For all of us beginners, a single failure does not equal defeat, it is only another step in the learning journey.
For all of you "professors" be patient with you "students" and try to remember when you knowledge base was small and you asked the basic questions that beginners ask.
Your passion for the endeavor will determine the distance you are willing to travel down the path.
I used to teach art, most of my students were older folks that wanted to take oil painting lessons, i enjoyed it very much. one of my students was very proud of her paintings and she showed them to a friend of hers who was an "accomplished artist" (whatever the hell that is) her friend told her that not everyone can paint, you are either an artist or you arn't, but she should continue taking the class because she seemed to enjoy it so much. that student never returned to my class, and her painting ended up in the trash can . I think that everyone is teachable, I read a quote one time that read "the greater the artist, the greater the doubt, perfect confidence is given to the less talented as a consolation prize."
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