A Hasselblad user gets tempted by the Mamiya TLR system

[Tel]

I got my C2 maybe three years ago. Before that it was Rolleis and Ikoflexes for 120 film and Rollei Babies and Primo Jr's for 127. I've since picked up a C22 and a C220 and a whole bunch of lenses. Reason: I really like the easy interchange of lenses in the C-series cameras and the (relatively) easy CLA/repair the system affords. (I enjoy tinkering almost as much as shooting.) I had a C3 but didn't like the crank, so I gave it to a friend.

 

[laser]

I have had Hasselblads for years and the best way to avoid problems is to take the film back off the camera every three months and fire every lens from 10 to 15 times at 1 second as advised by my Hasselblad repair man. That keeps the shutter from getting slow or sticking. Beside that always be sure that the camera body and lens are cocked before removing or attaching. Those two things will avoid most of the things that could go wrong with a Hasselblad.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I have three different paramenders, but have pretty good success even without them.

How do you manage to do that? Any tricks/tips you can share?

 

[laser]

As always excellent advice from Sirus Glass. I would add:

1. Store lenses in uncocked state. No pressure on the shutter spring.
2. Store film magazines with the dark slide removed so light leak foam is expanded.
3. Store everything in a <40% RH 60-75F environment. I keep them in a sealed ammunition box with silica gel to provide low humidity.
4. When exercising the shutter also exercise the selftimer "v" setting
5. Exercise the aperture by manually opening up and closing down the aperture
6. Rack focusing ring in and out.

 

[mshchem]

As SG notes, periodic use of the Hasselblad keeps all the parts spinning and working as the should. I've had C330 systems a couple times over the years, these have been less expensive than Hasselblad, the paramender is cool, especially when I remembered to set it.. C220 is lighter, Yashica lighter still?????? I ended up with Hasselblad.

 

[Tel]

How do you manage to do that? Any tricks/tips you can share?

I don't know how Matt does it, but I use the reference marks on the VF ground glass. It involves a certain amount of guesswork and potentially some cropping in post.

 

[cirwin2010]

I've used a Mamiya c330s pretty extensively during the last year and I thought I would add my two cents on the subject. This is coming from the perspective of someone who shoots landscape (and maybe some architecture).

Pros:
-Relatively inexpensive compared to other options and while large, is much more portable than my RZ67 and 4x5 kit.
-Fully mechanical (no need for batteries)
-Long exposures are pretty simple since there is no mirror to lock up (huge plus for me)
-Can leave a filter on the taking lens without obstructing your view for focus and composition
-Most lenses are small
-Somewhat modular
-May be able to shoot at lower shutter speeds hand held depending on technique (tripod recommended)
-Can focus really close (if corrected for parallax)
-80mm f/2.8 S lens is very sharp

Cons:
-Heavy (this is relative)
-Challenging to focus to infinity (this is a big con!)
-No built in focus scale
-Focus distance markers are crude and not accurate
-55mm may not be wide enough for everyone
-55mm lens may be a bit dim to focus at night
-55mm lens is not sharp until f/11
-Image is slightly wider than view finder shows
-Longer lenses may unbalance the camera when bellows is racked out.
-Parallax when focusing close
-changing lenses is not a quick procedure compared to other systems
-No removable film backs which while not necessarily a drawback, can make changing film while using a tripod annoying.
-Draws a lot of attention (personal con)

I like the system overall and I've made some large and impressively sharp enlargements from images using the 80mm S lens. But, there are some major drawbacks that I struggle with. Focusing to infinity and hyperfocal distances can be rather challenging. I very frequently get slightly misfocused images since it can be hard to tell on the ground glass at times. Taking a few shots and refocusing between shots can help, but at the expense of wasting shots. The 55mm lens is difficult to focus since the image is darker on the ground glass. The 80mm tricks me thinking that having the bellows all the way in is infinity, but in reality I have to move the bellows out about 0.5-1mm for infinity (could just be my camera or lens copy). And yes, all the lenses need to have the bellows racked out to various degrees for infinity focus which may take some people by surprise.

The lenses are relatively sharp, but will need to be stopped down a bit for acceptable sharpness for large prints (especially the 55mm). Your Hasselblad likely blows some of these lenses out of the water in sharpness. I would also like the mention that I have had some difficultly in finding good copies of the Mamiya TLR lenses. It appears that these lenses were very prone to fungus and balsam separation. It look me many months to finally find and acquire a good copy of the 105mm DS (also a fantastic lens).

 

[calico]

I have four Hasselblads which have rarely needed repairs over 15 years. Two 201f's, one 501CM, one 202FA. I wouldn't fear frequent repairs for 500CM if I were you.

The seals on the films backs will need to be replaced occasionally. Not a big deal.

 

[grat]

I'm planning an extended series of long daylight exposures with a 10 stop ND filter and another series of infrared landscapes. In both cases the filters, ND and IR, are essentially opaque and black out the viewfinder of a SLR. It is tedious chore screwing and unscrewing a filter off a SLR lens a few dozen times a day, and not forgetting to do so, and not dropping the filter, and so on. A TLR avoids these problems.

Not to diss the C series TLR, but there's a rapid filter design for SLR's that allows you to mount a filter on a hinged bracket, and swing the filter into place when you're ready to shoot. Still possible to forget (I've done that), but it's much easier then putting the filter on, taking it off, putting it on, taking it of........

 

[grat]

How do you manage to do that? Any tricks/tips you can share?

I've got the C33, so at least I know where the top of the frame should be.

 

[250swb]

Many years ago I had a Mamiya C330 outfit and never bonded with it. The relative weight difference wasn't enough compared with my Hasselblad for it to usurp the Hassy and for sharpness the Mamiya lenses couldn't compete with my Rolleiflex or Minolta Autocord TLR's. I think in it's day it would have made a very good TLR system if used professionally, because back then people really weren't as fussy about things like ultimate sharpness which nowadays is an internet discussion thing.

So the Mamiya was good once, but less so looking back. And if you look at things with a historical perspective it's easy to see this is true of many MF cameras and systems, not many of them really meet the needs across the board of todays picky photographers.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have professionally owned and used both mamiya 6x7 and a pentax 6x7 for 40 years. I found the mamiya best for studio work, and its all mechanical manufacture means none of the problems associated with battery powered cameras. It is HEAVY, I never found using it handheld a practical proposition outside the studio, I used my pentax 6x7 in preference all the time, even lugging it around Greece on a location shoot. It produced fantastic results with no trouble for 20 years and I only had to change the 6volt battery half a dozen times in 20 yrs. The pentax lenses were very good and most come without the need for internal shutters because of the focal plane shutters. In other words your choice depends on what type of work you do!

I took the Hasselblad SWC and Hasselblad 503 CX with the 50mm and 80mm lens to Greece. Due to the narrow streets on the Greek Islands I mostly use SWC and on occasion to 50mm lens. For the most part the 80mm was on vacation during the trip.

 

[Steven Lee]

@cirwin2010 excellent summary, thank you for sharing. I agree with absolutely everything, except maybe your assessment of the 55mm lens.

My biggest issue with that lens if flare and the need to always carry a lens hood, which is quite awkward and bulky for this lens. Speaking of sharpness, I find it pretty sharp. This is my lens of choice for indoor use, and I shoot it mostly wide open. Here's a 100% zoomed fragment of a 6,000x6,000px scan. Wide open, slightly off-center:

Perhaps there's variability between copies, or maybe my standards are lower than yours

 

[Sirius Glass]

As always excellent advice from Sirus Glass. I would add:

1. Store lenses in uncocked state. No pressure on the shutter spring.
2. Store film magazines with the dark slide removed so light leak foam is expanded.
3. Store everything in a <40% RH 60-75F environment. I keep them in a sealed ammunition box with silica gel to provide low humidity.
4. When exercising the shutter also exercise the selftimer "v" setting
5. Exercise the aperture by manually opening up and closing down the aperture
6. Rack focusing ring in and out.

No, Hasselblad, the Hasselblad manuals and my Hasselblad repair man state that the Hasselblad was designed for the springs to be cocked during storage. Do not leave the Hasselblad stored in the uncocked configuration since that is a good way to jam the camera by picking it up and changing a lens when the camera is uncockec.

 

[markjwyatt]

I don't know how Matt does it, but I use the reference marks on the VF ground glass. It involves a certain amount of guesswork and potentially some cropping in post.

My C330f has a parallax indicator bar that moves with bellows extension (and is manually set to the current lens on the camera). This is close enough for some work.

 

[MattKing]

I have three different paramenders, but have pretty good success even without them.

How do you manage to do that? Any tricks/tips you can share?

I don't know how Matt does it, but I use the reference marks on the VF ground glass. It involves a certain amount of guesswork and potentially some cropping in post.

My C330f has a parallax indicator bar that moves with bellows extension (and is manually set to the current lens on the camera). This is close enough for some work.

All of the above, plus it is really easy to mark the 50 mm distance between the optical centres of the viewing and taking lenses on the centre column of my tripod. Compose with the column set to one position, than raise the centre column to the second position before shooting.

Your tripod needs to be close to level, but it works.

It is only necessary for subject to camera distances less than ten times the focal length of the lens.

When I work handheld, I'm pretty good at gauging how to raise the camera the necessary 50mm (~2 inches) just before releasing the shutter. Again, it only really matters for subjects that are relatively close.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Matt, that's quite cool! Will give it a try. Thanks for sharing.

 

[melvyn gill]

That line of thought makes sense to me. What kind of camera do your current heroes shoot? I've mostly abandoned fillum but I'm tempted to get back into LF for studio type work (I'm more into Avedon and Penn than I am into Ansel)

I am currently looking at digital as well, Full frame, at minimum of 46mega-pixels prices seem grossly over the top! The sony apha looks good but the top end of this one is still £thousands so I I am also looking into smart phones one says it has 108 mega-pixels which sound a bit far fetched, anyone tried that one? Although they don't offer the same manual-choices of DSLR, if the MPixels count is true then downloading and adjusting in photoshop might be ok. What digital DSLR camera do you use?

 

[Jay Schrotenboer]

I am currently looking at digital as well, Full frame, at minimum of 46mega-pixels prices seem grossly over the top! The sony apha looks good but the top end of this one is still £thousands so I I am also looking into smart phones one says it has 108 mega-pixels which sound a bit far fetched, anyone tried that one? Although they don't offer the same manual-choices of DSLR, if the MPixels count is true then downloading and adjusting in photoshop might be ok. What digital DSLR camera do you use?

I believe you have found yourself in the wrong section, this is analog equipment. You will have better results in the digital forum, so perhaps try asking over there.

 

[guangong]

Thanks for the replies everybody. This.. isn't making my decision any easier haha. Lots of supporters on each side.

I will say that I expect I'll be using the cameras mostly for hiking and camping trips, without a tripod. I've got a sufficiently light backpacking setup that I can afford to take an MF camera along with me. There's a part of me that's worried about how the Hasselblad will fare with tons of vibrations (even in a padded bag) from ascents/ descents, given how precisely tuned it is. The fear of constant maintenance is real.. tho as Sirius has pointed out, selling before having problems is irrational.

Hasselblad cameras are more robust than you think. For further protection I would acquire a Hasselblad fitted hard case. Since so many photographers have a fear of appearing unsophisticated using a case, their prices on eBay are pretty cheap.

 

[Nokton48]

This is what I ended up with. Two C22's and two C33's. Newer black lenses and K2 filters on everything. All of these cameras take the 220 backs so I have been shooting a lot of 220 Shanghai B&W recently, but a lot of 120 B&W all kinds as well. Just good solid basic MF equipment. Plentiful and cheap. Still have all my Hasselblads and stuff too

Two C22 and Two C33 220 Backs by Nokton48, on Flickr

Mamiyas won't take cheapo 70mm bulk film!

My stash of 70mm 24 exp rolls 05 2022 by Nokton48, on Flickr

 

[sadfacej]

Okay I've read through everything. And so...

The Hasselblad stays. I'm just going to send everything in for servicing now, rather than getting it serviced only when issues arise. I probably wont travel with the 50mm, only the 80 and 150mm, so that brings me within 300g or so of the C220 + similar lenses. I'll just use it regularly and it should be good.

Thanks for the insight guys. Now, to save up for an acute matte screen..

 

[bdial]

Hasselblads went to the moon and so far as anyone knows the vibration they endured in that journey didn't cause any problems, so terrestrial hiking and trekking won't be a problem.
Mine have been fine with motorcycle trips as well as hiking, bicycling, airplanes, cars, etc.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Congratz on your decision sadfacej. Being the party popper I'am, I would say not to be too obsesive about servicing your stuff. Don't fix it if not broken. Use common sense. Remember that this is equipment is a bit old and things could sometimes go wrong when dissasembling them. Have heard a ton of horror stories and had a experience myself a CLA went wrong. Use a reputable repairman and be sure to speak about any possible risk and liabilities by the technician, meaning what he/she will do if CLA goes wrong.

Just my two cents.
Have fun with your Hassy.

Marcelo

 

[cirwin2010]

@cirwin2010 excellent summary, thank you for sharing. I agree with absolutely everything, except maybe your assessment of the 55mm lens.

My biggest issue with that lens if flare and the need to always carry a lens hood, which is quite awkward and bulky for this lens. Speaking of sharpness, I find it pretty sharp. This is my lens of choice for indoor use, and I shoot it mostly wide open. Here's a 100% zoomed fragment of a 6,000x6,000px scan. Wide open, slightly off-center:

View attachment 310612

Perhaps there's variability between copies, or maybe my standards are lower than yours

As yes, the lens hood is definitely needed if there is any chance of light sources skimming the front element. That does negate some of the size advantages of the 55mm lens and the TLR lens hoods are note as convenient to use as on other systems.
When I first got my camera with the 55mm lens, I shot a roll with my camera point up close to the brick of my fireplace. I did this test to ensure that my plane of focus looked good and to assess the performance of the lens. Many lenses don't perform well when focusing at their minimum focus distance/up close such as in this instance. This may be a worst case scenario for the lens. These are my findings and are entirely subjective:

f/4.5
Center: Resolves enough details to be acceptable for smaller enlargements (4x), but soft when looking closely or under a loupe
Edges: Very soft, no edge to edge sharpness
Vignette: Strong and very noticeable

f/5.6
Center: Getting sharper with improved contrast. Good, usable detail for small to mid size enlargements.
Edges: Noticeable improvement from f/4.5, but still soft
Vignette: Improvement over f/4.5, but still noticeable

f/11
Center: Very sharp with great contrast. Have made good enlargements up 7-8x with good detail. For my landscape work I consider this my working aperture.
Edges: Very sharp. Softness is gone
Vignette: Gone

The 55mm is a good lens, but I believe some of the behaviors I've observed may be due to lens design constraints. Most wide angle lenses tend to get bigger with larger front elements, but the TLR is very space constrained due to the presence of a neighboring second lens. Its possible that there is variation between copies, but I definitely have high standards since I like making highly detailed prints up to 16x20". On my lens, shooting at f/4.5 might be cool for creative effects, but I haven't really tried that yet.

As a side note, the RZ67 50mm f/4.5 ULD lens is one of the most impressive lenses I've ever used. Downside being it is large, very expensive, and the camera system as a whole is not very portable.