A Hard Economic Lesson
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- Thread starter Gerald C Koch
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They made lots of Pentax K1000 in Hong Kong from 78 and then mainland Ch holding down production costs until piece parts became uneconomic by 97. Neither the US nor UK had comparable in same interval?
'only getting' seems inaccurate they are way ahead already, the UK shipping container storage areas are wall to wall Ch.
They are already the worlds 2nd largest economy somebody is buying a lotta Ch goods.
NSA seem to be worried about their penetration into the communications sectors..,
Can someone show me where these "quality Chinese products " are? Over the past decade I've had extensive experience with Chinese products and they are poor from concept to execution of the final product. Are you assuming they can make good product or do you have experience with them? Not trying to pick a fight it's just my experience shows no interest in quality,originality or evolution of product/manufacturing. Poor materials,lousy fit and finish,near zero quality control with non-existent customer support other than parts sales that are no more than putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound.
I got a Alpha industrys ( of Knoxville Ten. ) M65 field jacket for Christmas that they supply to the U.S military that's made in China, and the quality is superb .
(pdeeh I am not intending on making this out to only you but you have given an example that I can use.)
So then I am assuming that you travel the 100 miles each way every so often. Even if that store is doing mail order or selling over the Internet you then should be supporting that retailer with their physically accessible location. A 200 mile round trip is a day, and it gives you a chance to see other things, or do other things, as well.
There is a real advantage to walking into a retailer that knows their products. They can help you with questions and problems and offer suggestions. It is their best interest to keep up with what is going on within the industry and they have contacts that you will never have, unless you are within the distribution network as well, so they hear things before you will.
A good working relationship with a retailer means that they know what you are interested in and what you might want to hear about. And a good working relationship means that when you want to order something that the retailer usually does not carry there is a greater chance that they will order it in for you. Being able to go back when there is something wrong with a product that you purchased involves a lot less hassle than going through a mail order or Internet retailer. But that working relationship only happens when you go into their store and purchase their retail products and talk with them. It does not matter that a great deal, or even most, of their business is being done online but at least they have a face that they can place with a name of one of their clients when you walk in on a regular basis.
The original post bemoaned those that purchased cheap products rather than paying for the higher quality products from some major manufacturers. But at no point did anyone claim that going to the major Internet and mail order stores aslo decimated and destroyed the local distribution network. If anything the local network is more important that the major manufacturers because that is where people are going to encounter the products first.
Walking into a One Hour Photofinishing store would only tell me about a small selection of 35mm films, probably only C-41 Colour Negative films, and never inform me about Black and White, although I would probably know they had existed looking at older photographs, or slide films. There is no way that walking into a One Hour photofinishing store that I would ever have considered the potential to develop my own films and to print them out onto paper. And to learn that there were different formats for films would also never happen.
On the other hand walking into a Photography retailer that will sell me a whole range of films, in a variety of formats, the chemicals and equipment to process them and the equipment and supplies to print them out will tell any new comer that there is a lot more potential to photography than Kodak's early attitude that when you take a picture they would take care of everything else.
For people who have never used anything but digital photography coming to sites like APUG it is imperative that we ensure the viability of local photography retailers carrying film based products and chemicals to process them with. And having a few large store in major urban centers scattered around the globe, a long way from most people, is not going to do it. Otherwise those people will never know that there is anything except digital photography available today.
So, if it is imperative that I support companies like Kodak or Ilford by purchasing their photographic products, as opposed to cheaper alternatives not intended for general photography, then it should also be imperative that I support my local, or closest if within a good drive, photography retailer who will carry a variety of photographic products and chemistry. And it should also be required that I support my local photography labs as well. If purchasing locally, and 100 miles can still be considered local for some, means that it is more expensive then that is the price that I have to pay to support a local retail environment and all of the benefits that come with it.
Richard
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iPads, iPhones iMacs seem pretty decent.
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There are many U.S. companies that have their products produced in China. Some products are good, others are not. Since these items are manufactured on contract, the companies must insist on quality control (or not). So, when a given company insists on high quality, and quantifies it (such as Blansky's examples, and also some power tool companies) the Chinese manufacturers certainly can deliver - though it will cost more. For some U.S. companies (and for some Chinese brands) price is more important than quality.
The positive part of cheaper foreign made products is that lower prices keep up our standard of living. Can you imagine the price of camera equipment if everything was made here?
In related news, I think I recall a news tidbit yesterday that Cuomo of New York State has considered the possibility of lowering State of New York corporate tax rates. And since historically, much of photography has been manufactured there, perhaps there could be some sort of realization going on there as to what kind of thinking has chased so much manufacturing to China. Though I'm not inclined to hold my breath.
China buys American debt. And supply is more abundant than ever.
I'm a printer of labels for welding supplies. My biggest customer imports their goods from China. I print labeling for the items that come un-packaged in bulk and they packaged here. On the goods that ARE packaged in China, I'm blown away by the quality of the printing. It's gorgeous. My best work is second-rate in comparison.
This is denial the Xray film and the surveillance film are both premium and expensive medium volume pro films.
The reason they are remaindered and now cheap is their market has vanished their users have gone to digital...
The next step 'helping to kill off' is very marginal the semi pro and pro still camera users have only ever been a small % of film production from a few years after Eastmann went to film.
Cine and photo recconance have had a large %.
The other large % user grannies and daddies taking photos of kids, using point and shoot cameras, films with two Christmas trees and a bikini... they now have phones with cameras and tablets.
Im advised by an insider that no more than a decade ago London had many 24/7 C41 labs but never had a 24/7 mono lab.
The big users have all gone digital Greshams law applies, ie bad currency chasing out good.
We don't have the volume need to support the current production factories.
The other problem is the manufacturer needs to comply with a succession of hazard laws so if they don't have a high predicted volume today they won't have a business case to borrow the money for tomorrow or the factories act people close them.
Even the cine teams still using film have reduced their film usage! All the modern film cine cams have a digital sensor and real time video output the director rehearses normally without camera as in past does several runs with only video review and then a run with film and video. 2nd takes thing of past...
Ive watched a Bollywood team do a succession of 1st takes, hoping to get a still of an annoyed director, did not happen.
I like to buy local. But in some cases that just isn't possible. If I could go to my local store and buy slide film, I would. The reality is my nearest photo store is 60 miles away in Springfield, and they just started carrying Agfa Precisa for 10USD/roll. Reality is if I want anything other than that in a slide film, I have to do mail order. If I want black & white infrared film, that's also mail order. If I want color negative film (which I shoot very little of), that I can and do buy local (the camera store 60 miles away). Ordinary black and white film is also bought locally. If I want 200 speed slide film that isn't yellow, I can't even order that from seller in my own country, not even from the same continent, I have to get that from Wittner in Germany.
With prices for E6 films from Fuji the way they are and they keep going up, it may be time for me to lay in a good supply of those before it before they become unaffordable for me. I love the Provia and the Velvia 50, but they are getting so expensive. The Wittner Chrome 200D reminds me a lot of the Ektachrome 200 of the late 80s and is significantly less costly than the Fuji offerings... and its a full stop faster too.
With prices for E6 films from Fuji the way they are and they keep going up, it may be time for me to lay in a good supply of those before it before they become unaffordable for me. I love the Provia and the Velvia 50, but they are getting so expensive. The Wittner Chrome 200D reminds me a lot of the Ektachrome 200 of the late 80s and is significantly less costly than the Fuji offerings... and its a full stop faster too.
I'll give you 40% on that. Apple is an American company with branches in China. Apple has many quality controls and the components are sourced form many countries,yes including China. American innovation and quality control that makes the Apple product. It shows that properly directed the Chinese worker is as good as any. Not Chinese business.
Typed from an ancient (by computer standards) G5 iMac.
Well I've no trouble with my jeans, flashlight, 3g dongles WiFi server or auto tyres. No failures so no idea about service/ support.
They were all cheap as well.
They are number two in the world.
Not that long ago my jeans were made in USA.
My IBM laptop was made in China as well.
We have even harder economic lessons to learn from China in the future, who are buying vast amounts of land businesses and resource worldwide, and as of this month the U.S. is $1.317 Trillion in debt to the Peoples Republic of China.
Aw hell benji we're not alone.
No we're not mate, I read today that the queen is down to her last million pounds. China wouldn't have to go to war with us to bring us to our knees, they would just call in our debts.
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My 2 cents:
We don't owe the film (or whatever other) companies shit.
They're in the business to make money, not help us. They didn't share their profits or "tip" us when they were flourishing, so I don't see why we should chip in now that they're struggling.
Natural selection is the best, most brutal but also honest, way to keep the best products in the market.
Buy films and materials because they're the best, not because your local shops sells them, or they're made in US/UK, or (for whatever reason) you like the company that sells them.
That said, a company that I have honest respect for, is Polaroid. With their art/promotional programs, they provided lots of (free) materials and technical support, to unknown artists or even students, to help materialize their projects.
We don't owe the film (or whatever other) companies shit.
They're in the business to make money, not help us. They didn't share their profits or "tip" us when they were flourishing, so I don't see why we should chip in now that they're struggling.
Natural selection is the best, most brutal but also honest, way to keep the best products in the market.
Buy films and materials because they're the best, not because your local shops sells them, or they're made in US/UK, or (for whatever reason) you like the company that sells them.
That said, a company that I have honest respect for, is Polaroid. With their art/promotional programs, they provided lots of (free) materials and technical support, to unknown artists or even students, to help materialize their projects.
True, on a theoretical level, but in the same way rulers in centuries past made marriage alliances, (the king's son marries the king of another countries' daughter) a country today is not going to shoot itself in the foot by causing harm to the economics of a country it has economic holdings in.
But you're right, the US is run by financial elites who only care about the short term dollar profit and never about the long range economic interest of the country itself. They have a large military budget for that.
The Chinese are waging economic war, they have always been a highly mercantile and industrious nation who are ironically the Worlds largest Communist nation and they are outcapitalisting the Worlds largest Capitalist nation. There will be no need in the future for there to be an armed conflict between
China and the U.S. China would just need to demand payment of America's debts of $1.317 trillion to ruin the country.
China and the U.S. China would just need to demand payment of America's debts of $1.317 trillion to ruin the country.
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I think china would be ruined as well if America stopped or was not able to buy all the goods that china produces. It takes a lot of factories to keep a billion + Chinese people employed and appeased. China's not gonna hurt itself just to hurt America IMO.
OP
OP
Please people lets have some facts. At the end of 2011, when Americas gross public debt stood at $14.3 trillion, Chinas holdings amounted to just $1.2 trillion, or 8.4 percent of the total. So much for the popular myth of the China debt.
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Foreign holdings excluding China stood at 22.4 percent, and domestic holdings at 27.3 percent.
But the largest percentage of debt was held by the Social Security Trust Fund and the Federal Reserve: 39.9 percent or $5.7 trillion.
The Federal Reserve in fiscal 2011 was the largest buyer of new U.S. Treasury debt, acquiring 77 percent.
- See more at: http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_33093.php#sthash.1LZ7nazw.dpuf
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Foreign holdings excluding China stood at 22.4 percent, and domestic holdings at 27.3 percent.
But the largest percentage of debt was held by the Social Security Trust Fund and the Federal Reserve: 39.9 percent or $5.7 trillion.
The Federal Reserve in fiscal 2011 was the largest buyer of new U.S. Treasury debt, acquiring 77 percent.
- See more at: http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_33093.php#sthash.1LZ7nazw.dpuf
Gerald please! Facts???
More please....and just how would that go down?
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