A Conversation with Kodak Alaris

PKM-25 · Nov 12, 2013

pbromaghin said:
They can start by explaining when dealers will begin to receive deliveries of all those existing emulsions they intend to keep.

*Sigh*.....Which dealers?
There is a distinct possibility that they are right in the middle of re-tooling the distribution system, etc and may or may not shrink or expand the list of who is a dealer or not based on volume. As it stands, the price point on Kodak films is mostly lower than competing brands with similar spec'd products. This is *highly* speculative on my part but we are going to have to sit tight....yes? Sorry if Mike's Camera in Boulder is out but if you need Kodak films now, order from B&H, Freestyle or Adorama.

Ken Nadvornick said:
The film-using community all over the world is waitingand has been waiting, and waiting, and waitingfor any post-bankruptcy good news about Kodak-brand films.

We got that from Lars Fielder in the interview, posted just a month ago tomorrow:

"Films not Dead: I am sure everyone is just happy to still have their yellow boxes on the shelves. As of 18 months ago it was all up in the air.

Lars Fiedler:Thats one of the key pieces for us: To be able to use the iconic Kodak brand not only in the company name but to be able to brand all of our products the way people are used to it and know them today. Its probably even more important for the Films not Dead fans to know that there are no plans to change any of the portfolio."

ambaker · Nov 12, 2013

I don't believe Alaris owes it to me to show up here, any more than I need to hype film for them.

If I were going to make a marketing recommendation, it would be to not waste too much time "preaching to the choir".

What do we need them, or any of the others, to market here, for? (Tech support and new products excepted.) We already use film. Do we really need validation for our decision? I don't.

At the same time I feel no more need to market for them, than I do General Motors. I bought and paid for my film, the transaction is done.

If someone like Plus-X more than the latest offering, let them say so. Companies succeed on learning what they could do better, and where they can fill an unfulfilled market. Sometimes the market isn't big enough and no one makes a new Kodachrome. Other times a new product is introduced that meets at least some of desires.

If only happy words were ever spoken, this would be a MS-DOS machine, in green or amber, the message would be on a Fido-Net BBS, and it would be dial up.

I believe all the film companies are much better served by people wanting to create/recreate a certain look, than by don't worry be happy...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

ME Super · Nov 12, 2013

I want to still see film on the shelves in the stores. Lately I haven't seen much from Kodak. Admittedly I shoot mostly 35mm Fuji E6, which I order from B&H. Fuji color negative film is easy to find. Kodak color negative - not so much. The local camera store has it in 35mm but they want over $6 for a roll of Kodak Gold 400-24. I'm used to getting it in a 3-pack for about $8 from one of the big box stores, and I haven't seen it there lately.

I do buy 120 film and negative film locally. I pay a bit more for it than I would from B&H, but I don't shoot as much of those as I do 35mm E6, which is my main film type.

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 12, 2013

PKM-25 said:
We got that from Lars Fielder in the interview, posted just a month ago tomorrow...

You're correct, Dan. He did say those things. And credit is definitely due. But given the PR hole that Alaris (through no fault of their own) has been handed, that message might need a little bit more oomph as time goes by. And time does go by. Fast. A month ago in Internet Time may as well be a year or two ago.

Outside of here, how many people do you think heard that interview? For that matter, had not the original link been posted here, how many of us would have heard it at all? Not many. According to Fred, only 40.

I signed up early for the original TIP online newsletter thingy, expecting to get maybe one every couple of months. At the beginning I got one every few days. And that went on for a long time. I still get them. And still read them. They have connected with their customer base in a meaningful online way. That often means in as close to a one-on-one relationship as they can reasonably simulate.

It's the illusion of close friends who see each other often. About as far away from billboard and magazine media advertising as one can get. Does it work? Well, I do currently have boxes of unexposed TIP b&w waiting for a sunny day (probably not before next August where I live) in my darkroom right now.

Is TIP a one-off marketing situation unique unto themselves? Well, I also have tons of Ilford brand films in all sizes in my freezer, based on Simon's original promise many years ago that Harman would do everything they could to keep traditional b&w film, paper, and chemistry alive. So instead of selling off my darkroom, I plowed more money into it.

Words matter.

So yeah, I'd say that new-age marketing approach works pretty damned effectively. As long as we don't alienate and angeror simply ignore, as some here seemingly advocatethe very people who want to buy this stuff. In a precarious niche market, no group of dedicated purchasers is too small to care about.

Ken

PKM-25 · Nov 12, 2013

I saw the interview the day it was posted via FND's site, they have an interesting story of how they came about so I follow them:

http://iheartstudios.tumblr.com/post/65422786788/films-not-dead

As for seeing film on the shelves, big broad term there them shelves. So which ones, big brick and mortar camera stores, drug stores or little mom and pops?

And Pentax, I tend to think that asking any film maker to stock with date sensitive films the shelves of anything other than larger camera stores is like asking B&H to put ripe bananas next to the memory card rack....are you *sure* that is where your customer is....?

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 13, 2013

PKM-25 said:
I tend to think that asking any film maker to stock with date sensitive films the shelves of anything other than larger camera stores is like asking B&H to put ripe bananas next to the memory card rack....are you *sure* that is where your customer is....?

Man... Gotta' agree with that. Likewise these days that probably isn't the best place to be spending your film advertising dollars either.

Ken

StoneNYC · Nov 13, 2013

It doesn't a lot of marketing money to make a kodak instagram and share images shot on kodak by other instagram photographers on a daily basis, 1-5 images a day posted to instagram will remind people about film daily in their feed... they don't even have an instagram...

I looked at their twitter, it's all boring shit no one cares about "oh we just opened up a new corporate office" and "look here's a new $500,000 printer you can buy" it's designed for corporate, except no one on corporate is going to follow their twitter... or pay attention to it because it's all PR people trying to advertise their own stuff.

I'm not saying SOME of the followers aren't real kodak shooters, but certainly this shit is mostly boring... and they only have 9,800 followers... many of the models I talk to have more followers than that...

I mean, that's free, they don't even have to pay for it, they simply make an account and say "we post film pictures from users, all you have to do is @ us ("at us") and 5 film shooters will be posted daily!"

It gets people excited and motivates them to shoot film to maybe be featured... I mean... it's a no-brainer... and this isn't YOUR crowd, it's the hipsters and young kids (35 and younger) who this appeals to, but that's a good portion of consumer business that isn't ALL professionals but people who might shoot a roll of film just to enter a contest.

This is just one example of simple easy FREE PR work that could be done... instead they don't even have an instagram, and from what I can find, no official twitter that's devoted to film, just the main corporate twitter.

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 13, 2013

Stone, in your own wonderfully unique NYC way, by golly I think you've nailed it...

:w00t:

Ken

pbromaghin · Nov 13, 2013

PKM-25 said:
*Sigh*.....Which dealers?
There is a distinct possibility that they are right in the middle of re-tooling the distribution system, etc and may or may not shrink or expand the list of who is a dealer or not based on volume. As it stands, the price point on Kodak films is mostly lower than competing brands with similar spec'd products. This is *highly* speculative on my part but we are going to have to sit tight....yes? Sorry if Mike's Camera in Boulder is out but if you need Kodak films now, order from B&H, Freestyle or Adorama.

Yes, Mikes. As much as they would like to pretend that film no longer exists, as much as I dislike going in there, they do have 8 stores on the front range. How an outlet like that can't get product is a disgrace. Price point? I paid 10.99 for each of the last 3 rolls of Portra 160 35mm that I bought to shoot my granddaughter's blessing and my sister who is dying of cancer. Alaris needs to get their shit together, and fast, if they want to survive. This is a fast world. The other one was Denver ProPhoto, who cater to the still and digital pros - people like you - in Denver. Why should I be forced onto the internet when there are local retailers like these guys (and Englewood Camera) to go to, not too far away?

pbromaghin · Nov 13, 2013

Wow, Stone! This is the most sense you've ever made.

StoneNYC · Nov 13, 2013

pbromaghin said:
Wow, Stone! This is the most sense you've ever made.

Ken Nadvornick said:
Stone, in your own wonderfully unique NYC way, by golly I think you've nailed it...

:w00t:

Ken

Haha! I burst out laughing so loud I think I woke the whole house!

I do have a tendency NOT to make sense... Lol

(PS... And I never fault anyone for not knowing this, I totally live in CT... Lived in NYC (Harlem) for a month once... And Queens (Astoria) for a month... Both while working on a long term project and crashing at friends houses, but not really a NY'er, though CT (especially Fairfield County) can be pretty.... Curt... About things, I'm sure that can easily seem NY'er like. The name... Trying to manifest destiny and also have a Really easy to remember website name [that I haven't updated in years and never use] and StoneNYC.com was available. Now i just send people to my Tumblr... http://stonenyc.tumblr.com Hah!).

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 13, 2013

It ain't the address. It's the mojo...

Ken

StoneNYC · Nov 13, 2013

Ken Nadvornick said:
It ain't the address. It's the mojo...

Ken

Yes but my old mojo sight name people couldn't even see/read correctly let alone remember.... Lol

Just practicing what I preach about social networking

I should have showed my Instagram since that's what I was talking about but it's the same images as the other link, but here...

Dead Link Removed

Now kodak, go make an account and follow me so I can be one of the first featured film photographers

RattyMouse · Nov 13, 2013

pbromaghin said:
Yes, Mikes. As much as they would like to pretend that film no longer exists, as much as I dislike going in there, they do have 8 stores on the front range. How an outlet like that can't get product is a disgrace. Price point? I paid 10.99 for each of the last 3 rolls of Portra 160 35mm that I bought to shoot my granddaughter's blessing and my sister who is dying of cancer. Alaris needs to get their shit together, and fast, if they want to survive. This is a fast world. The other one was Denver ProPhoto, who cater to the still and digital pros - people like you - in Denver. Why should I be forced onto the internet when there are local retailers like these guys (and Englewood Camera) to go to, not too far away?

Kodak Porta 160 film for 35mm camera is $6.99/roll at B & H and IN STOCK.

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 13, 2013

For those interested in more blah, blah from Lars, this time to Lomography: http://www.lomography.com/magazine/news/2013/11/13/analogue-talk-with-lars-fielder-of-kodak-alaris

Resume: "we're making the same films, nothing new here. Please, use Kodak films".

Sal Santamaura · Nov 13, 2013

ambaker said:
...this would be a MS-DOS machine, in green or amber, the message would be on a Fido-Net BBS, and it would be dial up...

Some of us would perceive that as a good thing.

pbromaghin · Nov 13, 2013

pbromaghin said:
Yes, Mikes. As much as they would like to pretend that film no longer exists, as much as I dislike going in there, they do have 8 stores on the front range. How an outlet like that can't get product is a disgrace. Price point? I paid 10.99 for each of the last 3 rolls of Portra 160 35mm that I bought to shoot my granddaughter's blessing and my sister who is dying of cancer. Alaris needs to get their shit together, and fast, if they want to survive. This is a fast world. The other one was Denver ProPhoto, who cater to the still and digital pros - people like you - in Denver. Why should I be forced onto the internet when there are local retailers like these guys (and Englewood Camera) to go to, not too far away?

i'm sorry, but I've spent a lot of my career in large retail and hospital distribution/supply chain and I get upset when the goods don't get to the customer. Yes, Alaris does deserve some time to get things straight before nitwits like me go running off at the mouth.

Hatchetman · Nov 13, 2013

Central Camera in Chicago has been waiting for weeks for some Kodak chemicals to come in. They are pretty much out of everything. Not sure if this is related to the aforementioned problems with film supply.

Ian Grant · Nov 13, 2013

Hatchetman said:
Central Camera in Chicago has been waiting for weeks for some Kodak chemicals to come in. They are pretty much out of everything. Not sure if this is related to the aforementioned problems with film supply.

There's a definite need for Kodak Alaris to re-structure the distribution of their products. While outside the UK I had problems getting Kodak B&W films yet Ilford and Foma films were readily available as a consequence I had to switch away from Tmax.

Part of the problem is/was it's easier for Kodak to sell colour negative films and they were readily available in 35mm in every country I visited.

Ian

Sal Santamaura · Nov 13, 2013

Hatchetman said:
Central Camera in Chicago has been waiting for weeks for some Kodak chemicals to come in. They are pretty much out of everything. Not sure if this is related to the aforementioned problems with film supply.

On the other hand, B&H, which has been typically receiving around 200 packages of XTOL and selling them fairly quickly, recently got in a much larger shipment. As I type this there are 618 packages in stock:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124564-REG/Kodak_8751752_Xtol_Developer_Powder_for.html

pbromaghin · Nov 13, 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCc-RWIp7XU

AgX · Nov 13, 2013

pbromaghin · Nov 13, 2013

That's how I sound when I'm aggravated.

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 13, 2013

I use that sound at work a LOT.

Ken

PKM-25 · Nov 13, 2013

StoneNYC said:
I'm not saying SOME of the followers aren't real kodak shooters, but certainly this shit is mostly boring... and they only have 9,800 followers... many of the models I talk to have more followers than that...

I choose to not use Twitter, but here are some thoughts on it:

The Ilford Photo twitter page has about 1,000 more followers than Kodak and while they do have more of a variety of posts including photos, they also emerged from re-structuring 10 years ago, so the following they have on twitter is indicative of a following in general in that I suspect Ilford followers have felt more "safe"....the photo world was hugely different 10 years ago compared to now, things have settled for Ilford Harman.

Stone, can't you just start posting images to the Kodak Twitter then? I mean, what is the technical difference between posting to the Kodak or the Ilford one? Ilford's Twitter feed is lively because of the people who contribute to it, if we stand around waiting for folks to show up to the Kodak one without making our own contributions, then we are part of the problem.

A Conversation with Kodak Alaris

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