A Conversation with Kodak Alaris

MattKing

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StoneNYC said:
Wait, so if they don't make the film or the chemistry, what does that have to do with us? I'm a bit confused, it's probably complicated business stuff? But don't we want Eastman Kodak to be the one to survive? What DOES the new KA make?
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Kodak Alaris makes the colour photographic paper at the plant they acquired at Harrow in the UK, plus they have the rights to the production contracts (for colour paper) at a number of other sites around the world.

They also acquired the commercial document imaging business from Kodak. I'm not sure if any manufacturing facilities were included with that.

Eastman Kodak sold the chemistry manufacturing business a long time ago, but the sale and distribution of Kodak photographic chemistry remained with Eastman Kodak. I expect that R & D around chemistry was shared between the manufacturers and EK. That sale and distribution business went to Kodak Alaris.

Kodak Alaris has the right to sell and distribute all Kodak film, except for the motion picture film. That film is manufactured by Eastman Kodak, on the same machine that makes the motion picture film.

Most likely, Kodak Alaris will need to develop a long term plan for the replacement of its manufacturing source for film. It may very well be that they are working with Eastman Kodak on those plans - or maybe with others.

In the short term, Kodak Alaris has an absolutely dysfunctional worldwide distribution system they need to deal with. I expect that this is what they are concentrating on now, because until that is improved, they will do more harm then good if they promote film to people who won't be able to find it anywhere.
 

erikg

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EK is now making film for KA to market and sell. It's interesting to wonder if the arraignment is mutually exclusive or can EK make film for someone else or can KA sell film made elsewhere?
 

AgX

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If you sell a business all ongoing contracts will go over on the new owner including such with wholesalers.
If Kodak Alaris would be dependant on Kodak distribution facilities, they either would have taken that over, or where it it makes sense to share facilities to hire service from Kodak. So I do not see a problem in that.
Is the distribution really dysfunctional?

Maybe though you refer to the market share at photo-shops where at least over here Fuji seems dominant.
 

MattKing

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The retailers around here have great difficulty getting stock of Kodak film.

And the bankruptcy made all distribution contracts with Eastman Kodak at least voidable, if not void.

It is, of course, made infinitely more complex by the fact that no Canadian retailer had contracts with Eastman Kodak. They had contracts with distributor(s), who had contracts with Kodak Canada. Kodak Canada is a wholly owned subsidiary of Eastman Kodak.

As I understand it, it is the same situation for all the other non-USA Kodaks.

Kodak Canada was never in bankruptcy, but ever since all its manufacturing capabilities were shut down, Kodak Canada was dependent on Eastman Kodak for product. As I understand it, it is essentially the same situation with all the other non-USA Kodaks, although of course sites like the Harrow paper plant are an exception.

In fact, Kodak Canada guaranteed the financing that helped Eastman Kodak get out of bankruptcy.

As far as I know Kodak Canada is still doing business, but rumours abound about its continuing existence. If Kodak Canada is going to continue in existence, it may have nothing to do with film in the future, or maybe it will serve as the Canadian arm of Alaris - who knows????

I doubt the retailers and distributors in Germany had any direct contracts with Eastman Kodak.
 

removed account4

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i hate threads like this.
kodak haters, kodak bashers, lomo haters and bashers
hipster haters, hipster bashers

too much hate...

we're lucky kodak's stuff is still around, its been a rough 10 years.
most every analog "consumables" company has had extreme troubles and some haven't come back from the grave.

i think it is extremely strange that in a shrinking market where fewer people are shooting black and white or color film than ever
that people are upset with kodak for discontinuing films that weren't selling ? its obvious that these people
have never owned a business, taken a college ( or high school level ) course in economics or have any idea
what it is like to make products and lose your shirt when no one buys them.

its like the guy that opened up a sandwich shop about 1 miles from where i live ...
he had a year lease that cost 1000$ / month
he had to renovate the space
buy restaurant equipment
supplies
"stuff"

he was open for maybe 2 months
now he's gone.

PKM-25 said:
And be really grateful we have *any* film at all in 2014....
Click to expand...

amen!
 

Ken Nadvornick

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Hi John,

Just be careful not to be pulled too far off center line here. Healthy disagreement is not hatred. As well, it's vital that everyone's views and opinions be heard and not gagged. And the topic of returning a discontinued film (Kodachrome) to production was actually first broached by the interviewer in the link shared in the first post of this thread, not by later posters here.

And as far as doomsday scenarios are concerned, if I'm not mistaken there have been more new or reconstituted film manufacturing companies started in the last few years than there have been film companies that have gone out of business for good. Something to think about...

Ken
 

ME Super

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Fuji's E6 offerings are very good. For B&W, I'm mostly an Ilford user, though I do use the Rollei IR400 for infrared. It's not HIE, but you get a very nice Wood effect with an R72 - in full sun I shoot it at EI25 with the R72. I shoot mostly E6, hence most of my shooting these days is done with Fuji. It is much rarer that I shoot C-41, but when I do, it's Kodak. Their Ektar 100 and Portra 400 work well in my "toy" camera. When I'm in the mood for a square format slide that's projectable with a 35mm projector, instead of lamenting the loss of 126, I respool some Kodak 120 color negative film onto a 620 spool and shoot it in my 6x6 camera. Once I have the negatives back from the lab, there's a hybrid process I use (that involves Dwayne's Photo) to get the images onto a 35mm slide. It doesn't have the full look of 126, but it's what's available, so I use it.

I'm actually excited about Ferrania introducing an E6 emulsion in 1st quarter 2014, because it gives us analog photographers who use primarily E6 another option besides Fuji. I am hoping that Ferrania and Fuji have scaled their machinery according to the market so that E6 will be with us for some time yet.
 

Roger Cole

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Fuji's E6 is good but they discontinued my two favorites, Astia and Provia 400X. At least I can still buy remaining stock of the later even if it is quite expensive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

spatz

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I desperately want astia back. Provia is but a sad alternative to it. Way too blue. 400x is/was good but a little too grainy to justify the 15 per roll for me.

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AgX

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I am sorry to say, but you are wrong.
 

miha

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Let's see: Agfa Photo, Labaphot, Mimosa, Perutz, Kentmere, Forte, Svema, Ferrania, Fotokemika, Sterling (Allied Photographic India Ltd), Guillemoint,... went out of bussiness for good.
 

StoneNYC

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Search here on APUG (or possibly LFF), the representative from Ferrania posted a thread (which I follow to many to find now lol) about 3-5 months ago about their new E-6, as I recall the comment was that it was based on the same technology as a starting point, but that it would be different and BETTER than scotchchrome, and those who had used scotchrome said that they were glad it would be better as they weren't quite satisfied with it.

This is my recollection but you should find the thread.

It was also mentioned they were considering many formats, including possible runs of 46mm for re-spooling 127, but that was simply a "that might be doable" response, they did put thought into it, saying they couldn't make the rolls/spools, it wouldn't be profitable, but they could cut long rolls of film AND BACKING PAPER and sell that as a set for home users to roll themselves. Again, this is my recollection... however ....ADOX? I think it was their rep, was also posting about their new films and new small scale facility that was designed to be produce upon request any size, so not sure if my brain is crossing thread discussions...

Anyway all GOOD news for film, but obviously we want to keep Kodak alive.

As a testament to the quality of Kodak, I just sold 2 pieces of NYC urban landscape that was shot on Kodak 70mm aerial film expired in the 1960's ...

Here's one...as much as they frustrate me, they produce a good product....
 

removed account4

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i hear you ken ... but
whenever there is a thread about kodak( since ummm 7 years ago maybe 10 ) or alaris now
2/3 of any thread is venom spewed about how kodak screwed everyone over, they don't make this or that --- and alaris is nothing but the same bs ...

YADDA YADDA YADDA

i almost put threads that have kodak and/or alaris in the title on ignore ...

miha said:
Let's see: Agfa Photo, Labaphot, Mimosa, Perutz, Kentmere, Forte, Svema, Ferrania, Fotokemika, Sterling (Allied Photographic India Ltd), Guillemoint,... went out of bussiness for good.
Click to expand...

you forgot j&c, and the cutting-down, packing, shipping of ANY SIZE asa100/400 SHEET FILM ( 2x3 - 20x24+ ) done by photowarehouse.
 

Chris Lange

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don't forget konica...
 

eddie

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If you're of a certain age, and grew up in the US, it's almost a certainty that you learned using Kodak products. Your introduction to film, paper, chemistry, (and even guidebooks to learn from) were most likely produced by Kodak.
Let's root for their success.
 

miha

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jnanian said:
you forgot j&c, and the cutting-down, packing, shipping of ANY SIZE asa100/400 SHEET FILM ( 2x3 - 20x24+ ) done by photowarehouse.
Click to expand...

Who is j&c? I've only mentioned those with coating facilities.

p.s. I'm a Kodak fan and user, past and present.
 

ME Super

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miha said:
Let's see: Agfa Photo, Labaphot, Mimosa, Perutz, Kentmere, Forte, Svema, Ferrania, Fotokemika, Sterling (Allied Photographic India Ltd), Guillemoint,... went out of bussiness [sic] for good.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Kentmere film is made by Harman Technologies, the same folks that bring you Ilford B&W film. Kentmere 100 can still be had for under 3USD/roll from B&H, though I prefer the look of HP5+. Agfa Photo is a reseller of others' products (Precisa is apparently rebadged Fuji Provia). Nicola Baldini is in the process of bringing some Ferrania products back (filmferrania.it). Adox is attempting to bring back some of the Fotokemika products back under the Adox name.

B&W is in pretty good shape. There are lots B&W film products available and being manufactured. Folks have mourned the loss of HIE and Efke IR820, but Rollei IR400S is still around and you can get a good wood effect from it with an R72 filter. SFX200 from Ilford also has some IR sensitivity, though I've not tried it yet.

It's the color range that is becoming limited. In the consumer range of film we have Kodak Gold 200 and 400, and Fujicolor 200, 400, and 800. Agfa Photo markets rebadged Fuji Provia as Agfa Precisa, an amateur film (though I've not been able to find it in the US). Kodak used to make an 800 speed consumer film but apparently it's no longer around. In professional color negative emulsions we have Ektar 100 and Portra 160, 400, and 800. Fuji still has 400H in their professional line. In E6 we have only Agfa Precisa as a consumer film. In the pro range we have Fuji Provia 100F, Velvia 50, and Velvia 100. You can still get Velvia 100F from B&H though Fuji has discontinued it. Same with Provia 400X. We lost the Kodak line of E6 films last year, but Ferrania is supposed to be bringing back an updated version of Scotchchrome 100 in early 2014.
 

miha

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Me Super, Kentmere never produced films, only paper, some was quite unique (have you tried any of them?), it went belly up, was bought by Harman which recently killed the whole Kentmere portfolio except for the Select RC paper. Kentmere films are recent. Rough times for analogue photo industry I would say.
 

ME Super

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For the record my daughter uses Kodak's consumer films, and when I shoot color negative, it's usually in my 620 camera, which gets fed Ektar and Portra. 35mm Color slide (which is what I usually shoot) is Fuji Provia 100F (which pushes nicely to 320), or Velvia 100, though I did run a roll of Velvia 50 through most recently for fall colors. B&W is either HP5+ or Rollei IR400S.

I guess you could say I support all of the Big Three manufacturers of film.
 

ME Super

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Haven't tried the Kentmere papers, sorry. Didn't know pre-Harman Kentmere only made paper. The Ilford line is quite good, and while I don't do my own printing, I've used their papers for paper negatives, they work quite well.
 

StoneNYC

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So far my new thread about kodak is good, you should check it out since you know stuff
 

removed account4

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miha said:
Who is j&c? I've only mentioned those with coating facilities.

p.s. I'm a Kodak fan and user, past and present.
Click to expand...

j+c was a company who started out as an importer of european films
and were planning on starting their own coating &c ... it would have been glorious ..
but unfortunately they are just a sad memory that makes a lot of good people kind of cranky.
 

Ken Nadvornick

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AgX said:
I am sorry to say, but you are wrong.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are of course correct.

I was thinking more along the lines of either first- or second-tier manufacturers with a global presence, not necessarily smaller, regional third-tier players. From the Big Four, three have crashed and burned. And the fourth is getting perilously close, at least for film. And of course at another level there is/was Efke, who was a bit of a different animal.

The biggest, EK, is now in the process of reconstituting in the form of Alaris. Agfa morphed into AgfaPhoto, which itself crashed. But Adox is slowly reconstituting parts of that product line as market conditions allow. Harman/Ilford is, of course, the gold standard of the reconstitution process itself. And Fujifilm is lurching toward an uncertain film future that is typically inscrutable. They could crash tomorrow, or ten years from tomorrow, and I wouldn't be surprised either way. And wouldn't know of it until the very day it happened.

So as of the moment, all four are still with us in some form, with three already reworked (or reworking) into formats with hopefully better chances of survival.

Besides those there is also Impossible Project (who seem to be doing just fine in spite of Fujifilm's mature instant offerings), and a possible sleeper in Ferrania, who is reportedly working on those newly reengineered E-6 possibilities everyone is talking about. If Fujifilm throws in the towel, Ferrania would have that niche market all to themselves. And if they can solve the problems of niche manufacturing (and I don't see why they would even be trying to reconstitute themselves if they didn't think they could), that market could be lucrative as a niche monopoly.

So really, in the recent past none of the bigger players has actually gone out of business for good. It's been painful. Excruciatingly painful in some cases. But they are still around and still trying to downsize in various ways.

And a few new efforts are also showing promise. The TIP films have improved dramatically in quality, I hear. Adox has just released a new film to good reviews. And has also reconstituted some legendary b&w papers as well, with more on the way. Harman has added several new products, including of all things large format pinhole cameras that are apparently selling well. Well enough that they expanded from 4x5 into 8x10. Who knew??

So I question this breathlessly panicked doomsday attitude that postulates we must all just shut up, never make any of our new/old product wishes known, and buy as much of whatever Kodak tells us to buy as we can because the film world is about to go extinct by tomorrow morning. Really?

Ken
 

StoneNYC

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I don't think it's about shutting up for that reason, I think it's more about the fact that we as photographers may complain and bitch about things, but we also understand the dynamics of it, but when we speak about those things around nine photo folk, that may purchase onesies-twosies but actually be fairly useful in the purchasing market they may stop purchasing because of our complaints thinking that Kodak is no longer any good, and it's that trickle-down effect that I think that Dan is speaking about, one pro photographer talks badly about Kodak, and then that person tells a couple friends "oh my photographer friend said blah blah blah about Kodak" and eventually everybody thinks that Kodak stopped making film, which is the case because of the whole Kodachrome issue, have to people I talk to think that all film has been discontinued because they saw on the news that Kodachrome was being discontinued as a film. So I think Dan is just saying we need to be careful about how we speak about film, and especially to those who aren't in the know, so we don't end up shooting ourselves in the foot in the long run.
 
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