9x14 plate holders

[Jonathan-sv]

Hello,

I have been lurking on these pages for a while ever since I bought a Voigtländer Bergheil to have something smaller to shoot with sheet film. I have to confess that the metal plate holders with film sheaths are an interesting challenge, and probably like a lot of people, I have been buying things on auction sites that look like a probable fit. I have a couple of holders that are in the right direction (they had a single narrow fold which I could shim out with something), but for dealing with the short term, I 3-D printed a back that takes 'modern' holders and I already had 4x5 film holders that fit, so I can shoot now. I had to design a holder for the Bergheil but it took only 2 tries and it seems to work.

The reason I'm posting this is that my latest 'attempt' to get 9x12 holders resulted in 5 holders seem to be 9 x 14. I can put a 9x12 film sheath in them, but then it is 2 cm too short. I can slide them in the Bergheil, but the red 'plush' shows so obviously this is not going to work. They came with a mysterious camera and I'm not 100% the holders actually fit that camera, and it's pretty tired. It apparently took roll film but if there was a way to attach the plate holders, that part of the camera is fused shut.

Jonathan

 

[Ian Grant]

Welcome. Those are the European equivalent of Postcard size holders, I have some. I'm not sure what 9x12 plate holders I have left, I had 3 boxes full of metal plate holders. I may have some flat edged holders, I need to check in daylight tomorrow.

Ian

 

[Jojje]

Among my Ebay purchase 3 years ago were a couple of unexposed Ilford glass plates, postcard size 9x14, (marked in the package 3 1/2" x 5 1/2"). After exhausting search managed to buy one 9x14 plate holder!
9x12 for a Voigtländer should be easier to find, I can recommend sheaths I've bought from: https://www.alternativephotographicsupplies.com

 

[Jonathan-sv]

I really don't mind using 4 x 5 film, I cover almost the whole negative but the camera does look a bit weird. I also realized that I could probably add the plush strip and some kind of stop, and just put in some 9 x 12 sheaths.

The link in Poland for those sheaths looks interesting--I have a couple of holders that fit in the Bergheil (or I can make them fit if I shim the thickness to 4 mm). The camera that takes the 9 x 14 plate holder had an Agfa roll film spool in it, and I did manage to slide off the back plate and it looks like the plate holders (which are marked 'ICA Akt Ges Dresden' and '721/8') would slide in if I cleaned out some corrosion, but there is no ground glass for focusing, I haven't figured out how to get out the pressure plate for the roll film, and the lens doesn't lock into place when it is pulled out. Haven't figured out the shutter, either, and the lens (just marked 'Ensign') is pretty slow (first 4 stop marked is 7.7). I only bought this lot for the plate holders, but I guess that happens. I have another 9 x 12 with no brand name (also came with the hunt for plate holders) and the only problem with it is that the Compur shutter on that doesn't work.

I'm taking this easy right now, since I was already set up for 4 x5, it is almost easier with that size though shooting 9 x 12 is a long term plan.

 

[Jojje]

Plush strips can be ripped off 35mm cassettes, by the way.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Original plateholders for the various Voigtländer camera's have the name imprinted on the back of the holder. There were different types as you can see below. These holders have a bit more height compared to other makes, like e.g. the ones made for Zeiss and Ica.

 

[Ian Grant]

I was looking at the Wikipedia page with Film Formats and Plate sizes and there seem to be quite a few European cm sizes missing. I need to go through my odd plate holders this Spring when it's a bit warmer.

Ian

 

[Jonathan-sv]

The one plate holder that I have seems to be the right length for my Bergheil is only 145 mm long. I have two other that take 9 x 12 (one marked Zeiss Icon 666/7) that are too long. I also have a Rollex back that's 150mm long and it looks like it would also work, if I decided to go that route.

Do the plate holders for other Voigtländer cameras (like the Avus) also fit the Bergheil? Though I don't need any more of these cameras.....

Jonathan

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

The one plate holder that I have seems to be the right length for my Bergheil is only 145 mm long. I have two other that take 9 x 12 (one marked Zeiss Icon 666/7) that are too long. I also have a Rollex back that's 150mm long and it looks like it would also work, if I decided to go that route.

Do the plate holders for other Voigtländer cameras (like the Avus) also fit the Bergheil? Though I don't need any more of these cameras.....

Jonathan

There were many different type Bergheil camera's; it could help if you post a picture of yours

 

[Jonathan-sv]

For some reason, I had assumed that the film holders were going to be the same, but I realize that I was being a bit naive. Here are some pictures.

As far as I can figure out, the camera is from around 1922, based on the serial number of the Heliar (45816) and the Compur shutter (720201). It doesn't have the wire frame that swings out by the lens, but a little viewfinder on the side. As far as I can tell, the lens/shutter assembly isn't removable. Slow shutter speeds are sticky but the faster ones seem OK, though I haven't tested all of them.

The last picture is the adapter I made showing the 'camera' side. The part sliding into the camera was printed 143 x 101 mm but it took some sanding to get it to slide into the camera.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Very nice looking camera, and great work concerning the adapter....

 

[Jonathan-sv]

I just noticed that on the picture of Bergheil, the bellows are pushed in. That must have happened when I opened the camera because they are usually OK.

Most the 4 x 5 adapter parts were from thingiverse and originally desgined for an Avus. The Avus adapter plate was too thin for the Bergheil and I designed a thicker one in Freecad. Details are posted in thingiverse if anyone else is interested.

I made the ground glass with a piece of window glass and valve grinding compound (which might still be a little too coarse).

I'm still amazed that I can take pictures with this 100-year old camera.