79x10 negative... sick! now... how to scan it?

Discussion in 'Scanning and Scanners' started by dutchsteammachine, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. dutchsteammachine

    dutchsteammachine Member

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    I recently acquired a huge 79x10 inch negative that is a partial copy of an Apollo 17 Panoramic Camera exposure (AS17-7-2333)

    I do not know where the negative came from. There are plenty of Panoramic Camera copies around in positive and negative form, usually made by NASA, sometimes a direct copy from the original as shown here:
    Dead Link Removed
    I am assuming it is simply a single cut from a larger role, but that does not explain why it is only a partial copy.

    Anyways, without further ado, here are some photos:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Awesome, right? its size is impressive.
    But now I have run into a problem... is there a way to scan this negative without having to cut it into tiny pieces?
    I have thought about cutting it into 4x5 frames and having it scanned with a drum scanner, but I would like to know if anyone knows an alternative.

    For those who are interested, you can view NASA' s scan of the original here: http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/view?camera=P&image_name=AS17-P-2333

    Cheers,
    Niels
     
  2. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Do not cut this ... there are ways of scanning in multiple bites and repositioning back using PS.
     
  3. Captain Slack

    Captain Slack Member

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    What Bob said!!!
     
  4. Cholentpot

    Cholentpot Member

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    Scan with DSLR and piece together in PS. Don't cut!
     
  5. MattKing

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    Contact the Vancouver Archives. They have done extensive work with Cirkut negatives, and may be able to give you advice and assistance:
    Here is some related information concerning the 8" Cirkut film: http://www.vancouverarchives.ca/tags/panorama/
     
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    dutchsteammachine

    dutchsteammachine Member

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    Does anyone know a scanning service that would be able to scan it without cutting? and just scan it in parts?

    I was thinking about something like an Epson V550, but that would damage the film with its lid, and the film would not lay flat. As I do think the Epson lid overlaps the scanning glass on the edges.

    I can only scan the edges with my flatbed:
    [​IMG]

    Does anyone know of a flatbed scanner that would not have a problem with a neg of this size?

    Maybe I could "scan" it with my camera, but the quality would be terrible. I do not have a light table to lay it flat on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  7. Andrew O'Neill

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    If I had that negative, I could easily scan it in sections on my V750. A piece of AN glass would keep it flat on the platen. Then stitch it all together in PS. It would also be fun to contact print that sucker on roll paper!
     
  8. Cholentpot

    Cholentpot Member

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    A camera scan will not be terrible but it would take a while. A piece of 120 takes two shots for me and then they get stitched. I can't imagine how many photos with would take.
     
  9. Michael Howard

    Michael Howard Member
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    Almost as impressive as the negative is your Ancient Technology Museum in the background!

    I would go the DSLR route. Set up a rig of some sorts , maybe with rollers...hmmm, I wonder if an overhead projector with rollers could be adapted?
     
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    dutchsteammachine

    dutchsteammachine Member

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    I have a Fuji X-A1. I will try the DSLR route. Which lens would be better, my canon fd 50mm macro, 100mm macro, or fuji 16-50mm ois ii?
     
  11. Michael Howard

    Michael Howard Member
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    Depends on how you divide it. 10 inches, I'd probably split it in 4, so 2.5" wide. Rigging it on a roller system with a stand, you could fairly quickly do the roll one long 2.5" strip at a time. I can envision, if I were doing it, using an overhead projector with light source below, a plate of clean AN glass to hold the negative flat, negative stretched across the projector on rollers, with a camera stand above. For that width, I would think the 50 would be about right.

    Good luck, and let us know how it works out!
     
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    dutchsteammachine

    dutchsteammachine Member

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    Here is a quick and dirty scan with my scanner. The scanner bed is very dirty and I believe most dirt you see in the scan is from the scanner, not the film:

    Canoscan Lide 600f
    1200 DPI, uncorrected raw scan w/ vuescan
    No glass carrier or AR glass:

    https://ia601508.us.archive.org/33/items/AS17-P-2333/P2F9-C0I0.jpg

    When I set up a camera rig I will make a comparison. The problem is that I do not have a projector, light box or a translucent piece of white material.
     
  13. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber
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    Do you have a computer monitor or a laptop screen to use as a backlight?
     
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    dutchsteammachine

    dutchsteammachine Member

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    I could always send you it if you want to. You will have to send it back eventually though lmao.

    Would the V750 not put pressure on the parts there the lid slides into the scanner bed frame?
    https://www.epson.nl/files/assets/c.../1/b/b11b178-epson-perfection-v750-up.jpg.jpg

    I am afraid it would bend the negative 90' degrees at the parts there the white part of the lid presses into the scanning frame. And if that does not happen, would the AN glass not do it too?
    Here is an illustration of what I mean:
    https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoyKt3NkIJNch1EOslSi8PfFE7t5

    Yes contact prints would kick ass, can you make those? could I commission one?

    I wonder to which print size you could enlarge this.
     
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    dutchsteammachine

    dutchsteammachine Member

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    I did not think about that. If I laid the film on my lcd monitor I am pretty sure I will see pixels through it though. I have nothing to keep a 200cm long negative straight with nothing supporting it. I could make something with books and paper towels but I am afraid it will scratch the film.
     
  17. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator
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    Just get a lightpad. They aren't too expensive, and you can use it for digitizing negs and slides. You don't need any kind of roller setup, and the alignment of the frames doesn't even have to be that precise, since the software can realign and stitch misaligned frames quite well.

    You do have to do your best to align the camera on the copystand with the film and keep the film flat. There are laser alignment tools to do this very precisely, but you can also use a spirit level. I use a level made by Omega for enlarger alignment.

    The resolution can be as high as you have patience for. For instance you can orient the camera horizontally with respect to the film and shoot overlapping 10" high frames or for higher resolution orient the camera vertically to shoot 10" wide frames or focus closer and shoot one strip of 5" wide frames along the top of the strip and then another to get the bottom half of the film, etc.
     
  18. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber
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    +1
    You can get them very inexpensively - particularly since you won't be overly concerned about colour temperature.
     
  19. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Once the scan is done I could make it any size you want...I have a 60 inch printer so 60inches on the short side by how many millions of feet long..
     
  20. Cholentpot

    Cholentpot Member

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    Here's my rig, I'm using a 50mm enlarging lens on some macro tubes. Does the job and does it well.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Les Sarile

    Les Sarile Member
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    An Epson Expression 12000 XL can scan film as large as 12.2" x 17.2" @ 2400dpi so you can scan in at least 5 sections.
     
  22. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    I had a Epson 10000 and I think it would work and currently myself and many here have Creos that could do this as well. Price for scans will vary of course.
    With this format I also could see a monster silver print as our Lambda takes 30 inch silver rolls... I have processed up to 11ft with no issues so do the math..
    Metro in London have a 50 inch Lambda so they could do a larger silver print.
     
  23. Andrew O'Neill

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    The V750 would not put any pressure on the film. The picture of the scanner you linked to has the white pad inserted for making reflective scans. I've scanned 14x17 inch negatives in sections, with AN glass on top. The glass is only 8x10, so it the film will not be bent at any time. I was surprised how easy and how great the result looked after stitching together in PS.
     
  24. ced

    ced Member

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    Get someone with a drum scanner or A3 flatbed but cutting into sections will be needed on the drum and on the A3 can be done without cutting.
     
  25. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    I am not sure of the provenance of this film, but if it is original,,, absolutely do not cut...
     
  26. Andrew O'Neill

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    Yes. Do not cut!
     
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