6x9 monorail

abruzzi said:

unfortunately, the one I got has a different back on it--probabyl from a 2x3 Graphic, so it doesn't have the cool GG that gets far out of the way. Fortunately glennview.com has one, so instead of $120, I'll be in this for $200, which is still pretty cheap (or I could have been happy with the Graphic back.)

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abruzzi said:

I’m thinking this camera is borderline too light. With everything locked and ready to shoot, the spring on the back is strong enough to lift and/or dislodge the camera and tripod. I think I need a heavier tripod, or one of the ones I can hang a bag of rocks from to hold it in place.

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Is that still the Graphic spring back? It's been quite a few decades since I sold my Galvin, but I don't remember the original, wide-throat back's springs being that strong.

If you get the original bail back that kind of movement will no longer be a problem.

well, I don't think it so much the springs on the grpahic back, so much as the overall lightness of the whole setup. the tripod I use fo my 4x5 is 4x the weight of this Galvin (not to mention the weight of the tripod I use on the 8x10), so I grabbed a tripod that I use for 35mm, and while it supports it well, its also pretty light, so the camera+tripod is only three or four pounds at most, so I think I need a bag of rocks.

All that said, I'm enjoying the camera so far. It folds up small enough to fit in a mid size camera bag with half a dozen film holders. Its relatively easy to use, though there are no detents or scales to zero movements, so you have to do it by eye. The roll holder should arrive today or tomorrow, but it will still be a bit before the original back shows up. Galvin lens boards are pretty much impossible to find, so I've emailed SK Grimes about making an adapter lens board to mate up the lenses I have already mounted on baby Technika III lens boards to a Galvin board. I also don't like mounting small lenses on large lens boards, it just makes them bigger and a problem to pack and transport. The Galvin board is 5" square, the baby technika board is 74x82mm, so a little over 3 inches square.

EDIT: one thing to add is I need to find a loupe more suited to the small ground glass.

Just a few updates. First, the graphic back that had been adapted to the Galvin doesn't work with Horseman roll holders. The graflok slots on the Horseman aren't positioned to work correctly with the Graphics, so while I was able to use the roll holder on it, it was only friction holding the Horseman in place. I did get the normal back from glennview.com, and that thing is really nice. It isn't graflok, but it doesn't need to be. Since the GG can move so far out of the way, you can just slide the Horseman roll holder in place just like its a standard cut sheet film holder.

If you read up on the Galvin, you'll hear that they either came with a 9 inch rail or a 9 inch rail plus a 6 inch rail. This one must be missing the longer segment and the rail I have only has about 140mm of usable length. If I keep this as an active camera, I'll need to find, or make an additional rail segment, though for testing, I can shoot up to a 180mm lens, since I have a 180mm tele with a short enough FFD. Anyway, I'm liking the format, though shooting sheets at this size isn't very efficient. A pair of 6x9 roll holders can give me preloaded the equivalent of 8 sheet holder, in less space, and reloadable in daylight (plus more than 3 emulsions available...)

So I expanded to a bit more rigid 6x9 camera--a SuperCambo. Again, super cheap. A user on LFF had a Oschwald Arca Swiss 6x9 recently for what seemed to be a reasonable price. I was tempted, but reasonable price for a Arca Swiss and reasonable price for a Cambo are two very different things. The concern with the AS was the cost of accessories, the concern with the Cambo is availability of accessories. After some searching I've found most of what I'll want for the Cambo, and mostly pretty cheap as well (I've had great experience with glennview.com having some oddball thing I can't find anywhere else, and for what I'm in the market for, his prices are very reasonable.) What was interesting is the SuperCambo came with a non-standard back that was adapted from---yup a Graphic, just like the non-standard back on the Galvin. I'm still waiting on some pieces, so I haven't had a chance to shoot with it yet. My initial eval is its solid, pretty rigid and everything is more or less where you expect it to be, so I expect it will be pretty quick to learn to use. It seems less than ideal for wide lenses. Even if I move the triopd block so its not between the two standards, I cant get them super close. A recessed lens board would help. Maybe I can reverse the rear standard to get them closer togater (right now my widest lens is 65mm, so at the moment it doesn't matter too much, If I ever find an affordable 47mm SA, then maybe I'll start caring.) Unlike the other monorails I have, the focusing is by friction, not gears. The focus knob turns a rubber wheel that rubs against the rail and moves the standard forward or backward. It seems to work well enough, but I wonder if it can start to experience slippage?

I still prefer 4x5 overall, and love shooting that, but I see the benefit of 6x9 size goes beyond just the size of the camera, but the accumulated savings of smaller camera plus smaller lenses, plus smaller film holders, smaller bag, smaller tripod, etc.. Plus, one small benefit is the format is natively 1.5:1 rather than 1.25:1. I'm not looking for a pano camera, but the slightly wider aspect appeals to me.

abruzzi said:

It seems less than ideal for wide lenses. Even if I move the triopd block so its not between the two standards, I cant get them super close. A recessed lens board would help. Maybe I can reverse the rear standard to get them closer togater (right now my widest lens is 65mm, so at the moment it doesn't matter too much, If I ever find an affordable 47mm SA, then maybe I'll start caring.)

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Hmm. I have 2 1/2 SC-1s. Long story. Anyway, the minimum extension with a flat board and the tripod mounting block NOT between the standards is ~ 71 mm. Seems limiting, but you can always use the stupid Cambo trick. Reverse the rear standard. If you do this, you'll be able to shoot only in portrait layout. To shoot in landscape, undo the tripod mounting block, lay the camera on its side and reattach the tripod mounting block. With the rear standard reversed minimum extension is ~ 43 mm. You'll want a bag bellows.

If you use a lens much shorter than 65 mm, you'll want a center filter to correct for falloff (optical vignetting). But if and when you get a shorter lens, try it out before springing for a CF. You might be able to live with the falloff.

Think about getting a 50/6.3 Mamiya instead of a 47 SA. Less expensive with patient shopping, but wrestling lens and shutter out of the Mamiya Press barrel is a pain. Also, filter threads are 72 mm. Ain't no 72 mm CFs. I'd like to be mistaken about this, if anyone can correct me, please do.

Re 47 SAs and CFs. Be very careful, The 47/8 has M40.5 x 0.75 filter threads, there is no CF that fits. The f/5.6ers came with 49 and 52 mm filter threads, Schneider's CF II was made in versions to fit each size. If you get a 47/5.6 SA, get the right CF.

Dan Fromm said:

Hmm. I have 2 1/2 SC-1s. Long story. Anyway, the minimum extension with a flat board and the tripod mounting block NOT between the standards is ~ 71 mm. Seems limiting, but you can always use the stupid Cambo trick. Reverse the rear standard. If you do this, you'll be able to shoot only in portrait layout. To shoot in landscape, undo the tripod mounting block, lay the camera on its side and reattach the tripod mounting block. With the rear standard reversed minimum extension is ~ 43 mm. You'll want a bag bellows.

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I haven't tried yet, but I was wondering if with reversed rear standard, you could get away with using it landscape with a roll holder by removing the glass and placing the roll holder directly in place instead of sliding it in from the side? The other negative is it looks like the adapter to mount the Graphic back might be spaced further back than the standard back, so I might lose a few millimeters to that. Glennview.com has a bag bellows, so the money order is in the mail for that. Overall, after all the bits and pieces as well as some customization I'll do, I'll still be in for a very reasonable amount.

Think about getting a 50/6.3 Mamiya instead of a 47 SA. Less expensive with patient shopping, but wrestling lens and shutter out of the Mamiya Press barrel is a pain. Also, filter threads are 72 mm. Ain't no 72 mm CFs. I'd like to be mistaken about this, if anyone can correct me, please do.

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a thought I had -- over on LFF I saw a link to a lensboard on eBay that mounts Mamiya RB lenses. Given the the minimum distance on RB's is 112mm (according to Wikipedia) the RB 50mm lens is presumably a retrofocal lens, and should easily be handled by the Cambo. I have no idea if it will cover 6x9, but since there are 6x8 backs for the RB it should come close. Of course tilt and swing movements will be strange (if there's even room for movements.) I'd have to get it remounted on a Cambo plate, but that shouldn't be difficult, and if I do it, it also opens up some other RB lenses, if I like. I tend to shoot normal and longer than normal more than wide though so I'm not too worried about that end at this point

Thanks Dan, you seem pretty familiar with these mini view cameras, and its helpful to get feedback from someone who has actually been down this path.

abruzzi said:

I haven't tried yet, but I was wondering if with reversed rear standard, you could get away with using it landscape with a roll holder by removing the glass and placing the roll holder directly in place instead of sliding it in from the side? The other negative is it looks like the adapter to mount the Graphic back might be spaced further back than the standard back, so I might lose a few millimeters to that.

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No, won't work. Just flop the camera on its side. This is necessary only with short lenses.

Is your "Graphic back" really a genuine Graflok with removable focusing panel, Graflok sliders, and a spring back that will accept insertion type film holders (sheet film and others)? Real Cambo international backs will accept only Graflok type roll holders.

a thought I had -- over on LFF I saw a link to a lensboard on eBay that mounts Mamiya RB lenses. Given the the minimum distance on RB's is 112mm (according to Wikipedia) the RB 50mm lens is presumably a retrofocal lens, and should easily be handled by the Cambo. I have no idea if it will cover 6x9, but since there are 6x8 backs for the RB it should come close. Of course tilt and swing movements will be strange (if there's even room for movements.) I'd have to get it remounted on a Cambo plate, but that shouldn't be difficult, and if I do it, it also opens up some other RB lenses, if I like. I tend to shoot normal and longer than normal more than wide though so I'm not too worried about that end at this point.

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I should have been clearer. The 50/6.3 Mamiya I mentioned is for the Mamiya Press system. It is actually a Biogon type -- I used to think otherwise, was mistaken -- and not for the RB/RZ systems. I don't know for sure, but I doubt that short lenses for the RB/RZ systems will cover 2x3. I also believe that these lenses' shutters are released by a linkage in the camera body and that the lens board adapter you mentioned takes care of this.

If you want to shoot short short lenses -- the shortest that covers 2x3 is the 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon -- get an SC-2 rear standard, roll holder to fit it and make a bag bellows to connect the 4x5 rear standard to a 2x3 front standard. I did this, used a 4x5 and a 2x3 board as sources for bellows frames. Mr. Evans used to have a 2x3 bellows frame, may still have it.

I don't know the actual source of the back, but it definitely not original. It has that dark grey finish I associate with a Graphic camera. It takes normal sheet film holders, has a pop up focusing hood, and the glass is removable by pressing the two spring loaded arms and sliding a few millimeters. Then it just lifts away from the back.

And I'm aware that the Mamiya you mentioned was a Press lens, not an RB lens, I was just mentioning it as another possible option. The RB adapter I saw has a cocking lever on the mount, so you don't need to do anything special to use it, and, while I've never shot an RB, my understanding that their lenses all can be fired with a cable release screwed into the lens directly. The adapter is here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122540109467

I don't know what that lens board is, but likely the mount unscrews from it and can be mounted on another lens board. If not, a machinist should be able to cut it off and mount it on something else.

EDIT: googled and found this image. This is what my back looks like. This back is mounted on a pair of plates--the first one is basically a Cambo lens board and has the notches that line up with the back mount, the second one is between that board and the Graphic back and simply has cutouts so the sliding lock on the standard can move and lock it in place and on the bottom so the tabs have somewhere to slide in. Then the Graphic board is trimmed so it doesn't stick out any further than the boards under it.

I just checked, and my idea for the back definitely wont fly. The wings on the right of the back in the picture above stick out too far and won't even allow the back to be mounted horizontally when the standard is reversed.

Yep, Graflok as interpreted by Graflex Inc. You should be able to mount it vertically -- "wings" up -- on a reversed standard. Then flop the camera on its side to shoot in landscape orientation.

I'm not enthusiastic about 2x3 with short RB lenses, so unenthusiastic that I've never tried one. The coverage claims in Mamiya propaganda are actually the size of the subject that will fill the frame at the lens' closest focusing distance.

The absence of reports about how well they work on 2x3 strengthens my lack of enthusiasm for trying them. You'd think that if they worked well happy users would tell the world how wonderful and cost effective they are.

I actually am thinking of adapting the Galvin back to the Cambo. Its a really nice back, and looking at the two parts, I think it could be adapted with about 2-3mm less profile than the Graphic back. In the meantime, for wides I have a SA 75mm ƒ8 I can use as long as the shutter speed is 1/30 or faster. (I need to send it for CLA, but for the time being its usable.) If I can't find a recessed board for the 65, then I may try to reversed standard.

Which 65 do you have and which shutter is it in? I ask because Cambo's recessed boards for the SC-1 came in two depths. The deeper one (25 mm IIRC) is intended for #00 shutters. You really want a native SC-1 international back, keep looking.

I actually have a Super Angulon 65/8 and an Angulon 65/6.8 both in #00 shutters. Both currently run fine, but I'm aware that #00 shutters are at this point borderline unreparable.

The biggest issue with this camera is lens boards. They're not impossible to find, just very difficult. Lots of 4x5+ Cambo lens boards, but very few 6x9 baords. So I'm getting a Technika len board adapter since most of my lenses are already in Technika boards. That should work for anything 75mm or longer. I'll keep my eye out for a recessed board to handle the 65mm lenses, but I haven't seen one for sale yet (there is one on eBay that claims to be it, but it has no notches for the sliding lock on the standard, so I don't think its for a Cambo.) If it comes to it, I can see if its something SK Grimes can make, but I expect it to be expensive.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that Horseman roll film holders won't fit on the Graflex Graflok back. The backs CAN be modified to accept the Horseman holders.
I have done it on three separate backs. A search on the internet should come up with the solution or email me if interested.

I've found a little on fixing that issue. I may look into it, but I think my preferred solution is to get the proper back (or adapt the Galvin back.) Making roll holders work is kind of critical because using sheet film on 6x9 cameras is not a long term solution. I have shome sheet film holders and a graphmatic, but film in that size is very limited.

abruzzi said:

The biggest issue with this camera is lens boards. They're not impossible to find, just very difficult. Lots of 4x5+ Cambo lens boards, but very few 6x9 baords. So I'm getting a Technika len board adapter since most of my lenses are already in Technika boards. That should work for anything 75mm or longer. I'll keep my eye out for a recessed board to handle the 65mm lenses, but I haven't seen one for sale yet (there is one on eBay that claims to be it, but it has no notches for the sliding lock on the standard, so I don't think its for a Cambo.) If it comes to it, I can see if its something SK Grimes can make, but I expect it to be expensive.

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Flat boards are available: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/863804-REG/cambo_99070630_sf_630_flat_lensboard_for.html, https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/863805-REG/cambo_99070631_sf_631_flat_lensboard_for.html

So are recessed boards: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/863808-REG/cambo_99070072_sf_72_recessed_lensboard_for.html

All getting them takes is will, money, and delivery time.

Using an adapter to avoid unmounting and remounting lenses so they can be used on two systems is a good idea. I'd been shooting 2x3 Graphics for years when I was given an SC-1 so had lenses on 2x3 Graphic boards. I sacrificed a 2x3 Graphic front standard and an SC-1 board, had Grimes make a 2x3 Graphic to 2x3 Cambo adapter. More recently I had Grimes modify a recessed 2x3 Cambo board to accept a 2x3 Graphic board so that I could use my 60/14 Perigraphe on both systems.

If this https://www.ebay.com/itm/234317864038?hash=item368e6edc66:g:TD0AAOSwcMVgAutm is the board on ebay that you mentioned, it isn't for a Cambo.

This, on the other hand, is. https://www.ebay.com/itm/144336214534?hash=item219b1bda06:g:Jv4AAOSwnpFhveXg I b'lieve there are threaded bushings that allow a #00 shutter to be mounted in a #0 hole.

Yeah, I saw the new boards on B&H, and I filed that away in the back of my head. As someone whose 4x5's use Technika boards, and my 8x10s use Sinar boards, I'm a bit spoiled on availability and price of lens board. A $100 board or $150 board gave me pause, but the used board you linked to, once i factor in shipping, isn't that much of a savings over the new recessed board. But since I have a Technika adapter board on the way, I'm not going to worry about lens boards yet. That will get me everything from 75mm and up, and along with the SA 75/8, I forgot I also have a Nikkor-SW 75/4.5, so that may be a better wide (and brighter.)

For the adapter to mount a 00 lens on a 0 lens board I do know of these guys in EU:

https://customphototools.com/lensboard-shutter-adapters/

But I've never ordered from them. I suspect SK Grimes could make something identical.

I thought I'd add some new details. I'm currently shooting two 6x9 cameras--a Horseman VH (with only Topcor/Horseman lenses at this point), and a Cambo SC-1 6x9. I've put down the Galvin 6x9 for the time being. The Horseman works well with it own lenses, and while I could buy some 80x80 horseman boards to mount other lenses, its clear this system was designed to work together. It seems to straddle the line between "system camera" and "view camera".

The Cambo on the other hand is a very straight forward monorail view camera. Its biggest limitation is going wide. I've never seen or handles a larger Cambo, but it seems like the rail and carrier hardware is probably the same as the 4x5 model. So, while the closes you can get the standards is probably fine for 4x5, its pretty limiting for 6x9. I tried mounting a 80mm WF Ektar, and I couldn't reach infinity without a recessed board, or flipping the rear standard. And 80mm is a very mild wide for 6x9.

Last month, I also found and bought a Mamiya 50mm ƒ6.3 that someone had already remounted in a black Copal shutter. The price was about what that shutter would have cost on its own, so I figured it was a good deal. It finally arrived today, and as a quick test, I wanted to see if I could even reach infinity (while I figure a wide from the RB universe would be retrofocal allowing , I wasn't sure with the Mamiya Press lenses. So the Cambo can focus it to infinity, it requires both a recessed lens board AND flipping the rear standard. With both of those things done, and the carriers for both standards touching each other, the lens is focused a hair past infinity.. There are more recessed boards out there, so this trick might be usable to focus say a 47mm Super Angulon. But that about as far as it can get. For my purposes, the 50mm Mamiya will probably be the widest I buy.

I've also found myself some ultra cheap "normal" lenses that were likely scavenged from old folders. Most recently was a $25 Voigtlander Skopar 114mm ƒ4.5 and a Kodak Ektar 127mm ƒ4.7. The Comput on the Voigtlander works perfectly, and the Supermatic on the Kodak works intermittently.

Over all I've enjoyed this excursion in small view cameras. I still think I'd like a Technikardan 23 for my monorail, but if I go that route, I need to figure out a solution to the back issue. Specifically, that Linhof chose not to implement the Graflock/International back standard. So if you want a 6x9 roll holder, you need to buy the Linhof one, and these days, used, the cheapest I'm seeing are in the $300-400 range, compared to my $75 horseman 6x9 holders. I have an extra Galvin back that I bought from glennview.com, so it might be possible for SK Grimes to adapt it, I have to decide.

abruzzi said:

I actually am thinking of adapting the Galvin back to the Cambo. Its a really nice back, and looking at the two parts, I think it could be adapted with about 2-3mm less profile than the Graphic back. In the meantime, for wides I have a SA 75mm ƒ8 I can use as long as the shutter speed is 1/30 or faster. (I need to send it for CLA, but for the time being its usable.) If I can't find a recessed board for the 65, then I may try to reversed standard.

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There are some limitations dimensionally; but, I think you ended up with a nice 6x9 view camera in the Cambo. I owned one for a while.

BACK: Another adaptation for the back is to marry a Mamiya Universal G adapter back to a Cambo lensboard. I did this to adapt MF to a 4x5 Arca Swiss, and it works quite well. Once you have a rectangular, square hole cut in the lensboard to the right dimensions, the rest is easy. By disassembling the G-adapter a bit, one can remove the inserts that stick out on either side that hold the G-adapter to a Mamiya Universal Press body. What remains will fit light-tight onto the right sized, rectangular hole cut in the lensboard.

TECKNIKA LENSBOARD ADAPTER: As for an Tecknika adapter lensboard for the front, find one for this or that view camera lensboard adapter and cut the adapter down to a size that can be screwed onto a Cambo 6x9 lensboard. But of course, this will work only for lenses that don't require a recessed lensboard.

RB67 ADAPTER LENSBOARD: As for the RB67 lens adapter that you referenced above, I have one. They're cleverly deigned and work fine. The lever that cocks the shutter can also be used to trip the shutter. However, with a little experimentation changing a couple of settings on the RB67 lens, one can also trip the shutter using a shutter release cable.

abruzzi said:

The Cambo on the other hand is a very straight forward monorail view camera. Its biggest limitation is going wide. I've never seen or handles a larger Cambo, but it seems like the rail and carrier hardware is probably the same as the 4x5 model. So, while the closes you can get the standards is probably fine for 4x5, its pretty limiting for 6x9. I tried mounting a 80mm WF Ektar, and I couldn't reach infinity without a recessed board, or flipping the rear standard. And 80mm is a very mild wide for 6x9.

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Oh, dear. I have 2 1/2 Cambo SC-1s. 2x3 Cambos are not as hostile to short lenses as you think. Put the tripod mounting block at the front end of the rail in front of the front standard instead of between the standards, reverse the rear standard, and the minimum flange-to-film distance will be ~ 43 mm. You'll need a bag bellows and to shoot in landscape you'll have to flop the camera on its side.

Dan Fromm said:

Oh, dear. I have 2 1/2 Cambo SC-1s. 2x3 Cambos are not as hostile to short lenses as you think. Put the tripod mounting block at the front end of the rail in front of the front standard instead of between the standards, reverse the rear standard, and the minimum flange-to-film distance will be ~ 43 mm. You'll need a bag bellows and to shoot in landscape you'll have to flop the camera on its side.

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yeah, I figured all that out, it’s still just a little more annoying than a camera where you don’t need to jump though those hoops. On a 4x5, I may have to jump through those hoops for a 75mm or shorter, but a 75 is fairly wide on 4x5. Having to do that on a 75 on 6x9 is like having to do that on a 120 on 4x5. I’d be more annoyed if I was a heavy wide shooter, but since I usually shoot slightly long, it’s just a minor annoyance. I sometimes wonder why few if any retrofocus lenses were made for view cameras? My possible interest in the RB adapter was partly because the wides for that camera are going to be retrofocal with a 110mm FFD. Otherwise, this is a very nicely made camera, and great to use. I prefer the geared focus on some of my other cameras over the friction focus this uses, but the friction focus does work fairly well.

EDIT: on the other hand, this camera should do very well with long lenses. With a 12 inch rail, I can easily use the shortest 360mm element on my Nikkor telephoto. I can’t quite use the 500, but with a homemade rail (which should be easy to make from some square tubing, a spare standard and bellows, I should be able to go crazy long for cheap (when you consider that a 500mm lens for a Bronica GS-1 costs $2-3k.)

abruzzi said:

I sometimes wonder why few if any retrofocus lenses were made for view cameras?

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No real need, fewer optical compromises, minimal demand. Retrofocus lenses make sense for SLRs, otherwise they're second best.

with a homemade rail (which should be easy to make from some square tubing, a spare standard and bellows, I should be able to go crazy long for cheap (when you consider that a 500mm lens for a Bronica GS-1 costs $2-3k.)

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I use 80/20 brand 1"x1" t-slotted aluminum extrusion. It is offered by 80/20's surplus outlet on Amazon in lengths up to, if I recall correctly, 96" at very reasonable prices. When shooting 2x3, hanging a relatively long inexpensive long process lens in front of a shutter makes good sense.

I have some 1" square left over from a project a few years ago. I want to look and test fit to see if it works, otherwise, I'll look at the stuff you mentioned

As for retrofocal, I would have thought that people would have found it useful to avoid the need for special bellows on wide angles, but I get that tilt/swing movements are more difficult on such lenses.