6x9 cameras

[anthonylg]

Hello,

I am in a time where I think i'd like to change my equipment. I have a RB67 and I absolutely love its lenses. But unfortunately I think I like the format less and less...

What kind of 6x9 would you advice me? Is there other choices than the fuji GSW960?

I'm also interested in older cameras, it has a softer look but I really liked what I have seen from the old Zeiss Ikonta cameras. Do you know other old 6x9 camera I might be interested in?

The only problem is that they have fixed lenses... Ideally I'd love to be able to change lenses and have a wide angle such as a 65mm and a longer lens around 140mm.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Most 6x9s are fixed lens, unless you get into the mini view cameras like the Linhof or Horseman. There's also the 6x8 Fuji SLR. Great glass, big negatives, and pretty much requires tripod mounting.

 

[MAubrey]

If you want 6x9 and want to change lenses, you're basically limited to something like a Mamiya Press camera.

 

[shutterfinger]

A 2x3 Crown, Speed, or Century Graphic with a Graphic 23 or RH8 roll film holder will fit the bill, or use 2x3 sheet film with them. The side rangefinder on them will be calibrated to one lens but focus scales can be added for additional lens making it usable for multiple lens. There is also the Graflex XL, similar to the Mamiya Press, Linhof also had a similar camera.
http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/graphic-models.html
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_2.html
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/linhof_3.html
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/linhof_4.html

 

[RattyMouse]

If you want 6x9 and want to change lenses, you're basically limited to something like a Mamiya Press camera.

The Fuji G690 (and G690BL) has interchangeable lenses and is 6 x 9.

 

[Dan Fromm]

If you want 6x9 and want to change lenses, you're basically limited to something like a Mamiya Press camera.

6x9 cameras with interchangeable lenses?

In addition to the Graphic press cameras and Fuji G690 (and derivatives) already mentioned, there are:

2x3 B&J and Busch press cameras, both US-made. Also US-made but harder to find, Rilex press camera.

2x3/6x9 technical cameras from Horseman and Linhof. I'm sure I missed some.

2x3/6x9 view cameras from Arca Swiss, Cambo, Ebony, Linhof. I'm sure I missed some.

I almost didn't mention Plaubel Makinas because I don't think of them very often. Less common and much more limited than Graphic, Horseman and Linhofs.

OP, if you are a francophone ask for advice on www.galerie-photo.info. Emmanuel Bigler, one of the site's activists and moderators, has and uses a nice little 6x9 Arca Swiss. His normal lens is a 100/2.8 Planar, the view through it is lovely.

Unless you want the discipline that using only one lens enforces there's no reason to limit yourself to an old fixed lens folder. Most of these old crocks come with a normal lens (100 - 105 mm) but the nearly unfindable Envoy, really a box camera, has a 64/6.5 TTH Ser. VIIb

 

[michr]

Mamiya Press, Graflex XL both come to mind. Both are rangefinders and a bit heavy for the format. The look will be more modern (contrasty and sharp) compared to the Zeiss folders. LF forum has a page on 2x3 cameras. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/roundup2x3.html

 

[anthonylg]

Thanks very much for your answers!

Most 6x9s are fixed lens, unless you get into the mini view cameras like the Linhof or Horseman. There's also the 6x8 Fuji SLR. Great glass, big negatives, and pretty much requires tripod mounting.

The Fuji GX680 is a possibility yes, and as I use only the RB67 on a tripod the size wouldn't be a problem. And this system seems to have great lenses.

I guess lenses is the most important here, to find a system where I feel comfortable and where I like them. The 2x3 cameras are not for me I think and often more expensive.

I think the systems that would suit me best are:
Mamiya press (always loved the mamiyas lenses for different systems as c330 or RB67, so I guess i would like it). The Graflex XL might be too expensive
Fuji G690
Fuji GX680

I can't do everything with this kind of camera, but I think I'll try to find an old Zeiss Ikonta anyway. I really like this kind of old soft lenses

 

[Dan Fromm]

Um, 2x3 is a US/UK abbreviation for 2.25 inches x 3.25 inches. 6x9 is a dreadful metric approximation to 2.25" x 3.25". 6x9 is the format's name, not its size 6x9 and 2x3 are identical.

I'm sorry, but "old" lenses aren't soft. And you're mistaken about the costs. You'll have to pay VAT and duty on gear imported from outside the EU. You know the rates, can calculate delivered prices in Euros for gear offered on, say, eBay.com. Do the exercise, compare delivered prices with delivered prices from sellers in the EU.

As for lenses, well, there are many available. To get an idea, see http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/optiques-6x9-dan-fromm-v2-2011-04-08.pdf
If you're more comfortable with English, http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf

 

[timmct]

I had an old (but very near mint) Zeiss Super Ikonta C that had the 6 x 4.5 mask that could be snapped over the capture plane to give "Portrait Mode".

Kind of a low rent way to get "2" lenses. Very versatile...great camera...not exactly point and shoot but close to it if you practiced a bit.

 

[anthonylg]

I'm sorry, but "old" lenses aren't soft. And you're mistaken about the costs. You'll have to pay VAT and duty on gear imported from outside the EU. You know the rates, can calculate delivered prices in Euros for gear offered on, say, eBay.com. Do the exercise, compare delivered prices with delivered prices from sellers in the EU.

As for lenses, well, there are many available. To get an idea, see http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/optiques-6x9-dan-fromm-v2-2011-04-08.pdf
If you're more comfortable with English, http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf

Well, I find that some older lenses are softer, less contrasty... Even the RB67 lenses are softer than the ones of RZ76 (not to mention the non C) , and the Zeiss Ikonta are softer than that... I don't mean "worst" or "better" saying that, it's just that they were conceived differently and for different things

Merci pour les liens!

I had an old (but very near mint) Zeiss Super Ikonta C that had the 6 x 4.5 mask that could be snapped over the capture plane to give "Portrait Mode".

Kind of a low rent way to get "2" lenses. Very versatile...great camera...not exactly point and shoot but close to it if you practiced a bit.

It seems to be a great camera. A friend show me pictures made with it with velvia, and I loved it. It still had the beautiful colors from the slide but the softer lens kind of erased the super contrast and sharpness the velvia has, with what seemed to be lighter blacks, which I like very much.

 

[Dan Fromm]

A friend show me pictures made with it with velvia, and I loved it. It still had the beautiful colors from the slide but the softer lens kind of erased the super contrast and sharpness the velvia has, with what seemed to be lighter blacks, which I like very much.

With reversal film, over-exposure gives lighter blacks. If your friend's Super Ikonta C is postwar - it may well be prewar - its lens will be coated. Its shutter probably runs slow.

 

[anthonylg]

The picture wasn't globally over-exposed, it was just softer and felt lighter, with less contrast. It was different from the over-exposed pictures I took with the RB67 and Velvia under the same kind of light

 

[Dan Fromm]

What you described could be mild overexposure or the effect of veiling flare. Given my experience with uncoated lenses, primarily tessar types, and old shutters slight overexposure is more likely.

The best way I've found to eliminate slight errors in shutter speeds' effects from test shots, is to shoot a good color target with reversal film using flash illumination. Meter the flash with an incident flash meter before exposing film, set things up so that flash completely overpowers ambient light. Darkened room, small aperture plus high shutter speed, ...

 

[unityofsaints]

The G690 would be my choice. I have a GW690 and sometimes miss having interchangeable lenses. It's not cheap though as some of the lenses are quite rare now.

 

[summicron1]

Thanks very much for your answers!





I can't do everything with this kind of camera, but I think I'll try to find an old Zeiss Ikonta anyway. I really like this kind of old soft lenses

if it is old and soft you want, stay away from Zeiss Ikontas ... the Tessar lenses on those puppies are waaaay too sharp for you. Seriously, great glass.

 

[anthonylg]

if it is old and soft you want, stay away from Zeiss Ikontas ... the Tessar lenses on those puppies are waaaay too sharp for you. Seriously, great glass.

Well, I don't really want soft, just a bit softer than modern lenses The Ikontas seem to be really sharp, but with lower contrast, which I really like. And I feel like I could take this kind of camera anywhere and just shoot for pleasure. Because sometimes I just miss the spontaneity I can't have with a heavy system like the RB67...

 

[Paul Howell]

I have a Mamiya Universal with 4 lens, all modern, somewhat slow but very sharp, although some dont like the grip I prefer the grip for handheld as the system was designed for press work. I have both the 6X7 and 6X9 backs, dont often shoot 6X7, there is also a multiback that allows for 6x6 and 6x4.5. For a fixed lens I shoot with a Kodak Tourister, a late model with the 4 element lens and 1/500 top shutter speed, scale focus, as I use it for landscapes I dont miss a true rangefinder. Cutting down 120 spools to fit the 620 is a pain. For quick shooting in 6X7 a Konica Omega Press, only 3 lens, but very fast film advance with the pull push advance that cocks the shutter as the film is advance, with a Mamiya Press the shutters needs to be cocked. Konica lens are as good as you can get.

 

[Greg Heath]

Hello,

I am in a time where I think i'd like to change my equipment. I have a RB67 and I absolutely love its lenses. But unfortunately I think I like the format less and less...

What kind of 6x9 would you advice me? Is there other choices than the fuji GSW960?

I'm also interested in older cameras, it has a softer look but I really liked what I have seen from the old Zeiss Ikonta cameras. Do you know other old 6x9 camera I might be interested in?

The only problem is that they have fixed lenses... Ideally I'd love to be able to change lenses and have a wide angle such as a 65mm and a longer lens around 140mm.

Agfa Record I. Great Camera. They are cheap. I bought one and rebuilt it including the shutter and bellows. Takes great photos.

Agfa Record I. 105mm f/32. Agfa Agnar Pronto Shutter. Kodak Tri-x 400 film. Dev: XTOL 6min30sec.

 

[darinwc]

Lots of good info about folders. Heres a short roundup.

In 6x9 folders you have:
(no rangefinder)
Zeiss Ikonta C
Zeiss Ercona (east german, sometimes has the tessar, all coated lenses)
Voigtlander Bessa I
Agfa Record
Ensign Selfix
-many many others

(Uncoupled rangefinder)
Agfa Record III
Zeiss M Ikonta (or Mess Ikonta)
Ensign Selfix 820

(coupled rangefinder)
Voigtlander Bessa II
Zeiss Super Ikonta C
Ensign Autorange 820

All of these are capable of quality results if you take care.
However there is a reality that you just dont get that nice solid handheld feel of a SLR, nor the viewfinder.

If you are going to use a tripod, you may as well use a heavier camera, such as a graflex or mamiya.
-The graflex does have an advantage that you can adjust the rangefinder for almost any lens. They are solid cameras that protect the lens unlike a mamiya.

Whatever you decide, just spend the money and get one in nice shape. A junker is not worth the time or money.

 

[Jeff Bradford]

I feel obligated to plug the Kodak Medalist and Medalist ii here.

 

[MAubrey]

6x9 cameras with interchangeable lenses?

In addition to the Graphic press cameras and Fuji G690 (and derivatives) already mentioned, there are:

2x3 B&J and Busch press cameras, both US-made. Also US-made but harder to find, Rilex press camera.

2x3/6x9 technical cameras from Horseman and Linhof. I'm sure I missed some.

2x3/6x9 view cameras from Arca Swiss, Cambo, Ebony, Linhof. I'm sure I missed some.

I almost didn't mention Plaubel Makinas because I don't think of them very often. Less common and much more limited than Graphic, Horseman and Linhofs.

OP, if you are a francophone ask for advice on www.galerie-photo.info. Emmanuel Bigler, one of the site's activists and moderators, has and uses a nice little 6x9 Arca Swiss. His normal lens is a 100/2.8 Planar, the view through it is lovely.

Unless you want the discipline that using only one lens enforces there's no reason to limit yourself to an old fixed lens folder. Most of these old crocks come with a normal lens (100 - 105 mm) but the nearly unfindable Envoy, really a box camera, has a 64/6.5 TTH Ser. VIIb

Sigh...I'm a failure..

 

[anthonylg]

Thanks Paul and Greg for your impressions about these cameras. The press systems would be interesting for me I guess.
Jeff, I have many times heard about the Medalist but never had the luck to try one

Lots of good info about folders. Heres a short roundup.

In 6x9 folders you have:
(no rangefinder)
Zeiss Ikonta C
Zeiss Ercona (east german, sometimes has the tessar, all coated lenses)
Voigtlander Bessa I
Agfa Record
Ensign Selfix
-many many others

(Uncoupled rangefinder)
Agfa Record III
Zeiss M Ikonta (or Mess Ikonta)
Ensign Selfix 820

(coupled rangefinder)
Voigtlander Bessa II
Zeiss Super Ikonta C
Ensign Autorange 820

All of these are capable of quality results if you take care.
However there is a reality that you just dont get that nice solid handheld feel of a SLR, nor the viewfinder.

If you are going to use a tripod, you may as well use a heavier camera, such as a graflex or mamiya.
-The graflex does have an advantage that you can adjust the rangefinder for almost any lens. They are solid cameras that protect the lens unlike a mamiya.

Whatever you decide, just spend the money and get one in nice shape. A junker is not worth the time or money.

Thank you for this list! You're absolutely right, it is so important for these old cameras to take one in a nice shape.
My first instinct would be to take a fuji G690, GX680 or a Mamiya press AND to have something lighter like a Zeiss Ikonta. But to have all of that I really need to sell my RB67 and its lenses... If anyone here is interested...

 

[AgX]

Dan, you misssed the two press-cameras from Linhof.

 

[John51]

How many uncropped prints with a 3 to 2 ratio are you planning to make a year? They're the only prints that your 6x7 negs can't do but a 6x9 neg can.

If it's just the hassle of storing and contact printing 6x7 negs, leave the lens cap on for the first 2 shots. Then you'll have 8 negs that can be stored and contact printed easily.