5x7 films availability

[Fredrik Sandstrom]

I'm currently playing with a Tachihara 5x7 camera that I will probably buy. 5x7 film seems hard to find though; what films are currently in production in this size (or 13x18 cm)? I'm primarily interested in E6, but it'd be nice to know what options we have in B&W and C41 as well.

And can anyone suggest a good source for this film, preferably in Europe?

Many thanks!

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Badger Graphic is taking pre-orders for Provia 100F in 5x7", and I think that may have been a special order item that they aren't planning to reorder any time soon, so get it while you can--

https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=257

Some people I know who want to shoot 5x7" color transparencies cut down 8x10".

 

[werra]

As B&W, Fomapan 100 is available in 13x18: http://www.fotomaterial.cz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_18&products_id=28 . Wephota products should be available in both 5x7/13x18 as well.

 

[david_mizen]

chinese shanghai B & W for colour see japan exposures/megapearls they are currently looking at a special order for velvia 50

 

[Slavomir Polivka]

http://www.fomafoto.com

 

[DanielStone]

for b&w,

efke: comes in 25,50, and 100 speed flavors :munch:. Ilford cuts 5x7 regularly, Kodak occasionally.

I shoot 4x5, but 5x7 seems to be available a good bit from the "smaller"(efke, foma) manufacturers compared to the "big guys"(Fuji and Kodak)

-Dan

 

[Jerevan]

The Fomapan 100 works fine for me in 13x18. I bought mine from www.fotoimpex.de. I have also used the Ilford Ortho plus in 13x18 which is a wonderful film but unfortunately a bit expensive.

 

[WarEaglemtn]

Take a look at View Camera Magazine. Every now and then they print information on the films still available. Also, it is worth subscribing too for LF information.

 

[Fredrik Sandstrom]

Thank you for your replies! B&W seems to be easily obtainable at good prices. E6 film less so (and a lot more expensive). And C41 seems non-existant..?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...B&W seems to be easily obtainable at good prices. E6 film less so (and a lot more expensive). And C41 seems non-existant..?

Think of 5x7 as "cutting edge" in that respect. I don't believe it will be too many years before all color sheet film is gone. In my opinion, unless you're interested in black and white, large format may not be the thing to pursure. I also suspect the end of color film in other formats won't be far behind...

 

[jgjbowen]

The late Ted Harris told me a few years ago that 5x7 (13x18) was much more popular in Europe vs North America. I believe Ted frequently purchased color film from Europe because more emulsions were available across the pond.

In the US, I would check the MAJOR retailers ie B&H, Calumet, Badger, Freestyle, Adorama, insert your own here.... If they don't have it, then it will likely have to be special ordered. Check APUG and the LF forum for notices of special orders.

Good Luck,

 

[Renato Tonelli]

I haven't had any luck finding E6 emulsions in 5x7 at B&H, Adorama, and some others; I've placed a special order at Badger Graphics (see David's post and link above). Unless I'm missing something, Kodak does not offer their E6 films in 5x7 at all.
Too bad - 5x7 is a really nice format.

 

[Fredrik Sandstrom]

I don't believe it will be too many years before all color sheet film is gone.

Don't say that --- a new one was announced today! http://www.photographyblog.com/news/kodak_ektar_100_sheet_film/

(Not in 5x7 though.)

 

[frotog]

Don't say that --- a new one was announced today! http://www.photographyblog.com/news/kodak_ektar_100_sheet_film/

(Not in 5x7 though.)

Thanks! Great news! Cutting down 57 from 810 is no problem. For those who can't stomach doing it themselves try Varo Tech in West Chester Pa - they're experts at photosensitive material handling. I brought them 12 boxes of 8x10 400nc and they cut and repackaged for $150...accurate cuts to +- .25 mm.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...I don't believe it will be too many years before all color sheet film is gone...

Don't say that --- a new one was announced today! http://www.photographyblog.com/news/kodak_ektar_100_sheet_film/

(Not in 5x7 though.)

While happy to see the Ektar 100 announcement, I'll stand by my prediction. I just don't see color film surviving the next decade.

A pessimist is never disappointed, only pleasantly surprised.

 

[viridari]

I don't believe it will be too many years before all color sheet film is gone.

I guess Kodak didn't read this before releasing Ektar 100 in sheet film today.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I guess Kodak didn't read this before releasing Ektar 100 in sheet film today.

I guess you didn't read this

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

before posting.

 

[Van Camper]

Sal, it helps if you know what is going on in the market. With the arrival of digital, we now had to split the pie in two. This means a restructuring in the industry, and film moving to a specialty class status. Product choices are less (no repetition), local neighbourhood labs have closed down...why....because it is a specialty good, and like surgery you find it in major cities. Things are leaner and meaner. All the smoke we saw was in the smaller formats (35mm and medium format). At one time medium format was the bread and butter in the wedding industry, but now it is replaced by the dslr.

Look now at the large format ndustry (the resellers), and the number of mfrs of film cameras (for large format) has actually increased ...Fotoman China, Goaersi, Chamonix are newcomers. The product lines are expanding....formats like 5x8,6.5x8.5,7x17m etc.... and other odd sizes have been added, and we now have ultra large format (a term that 5 years ago didn't exist). We have over 15 mfrs of large format cameras (Toyo, Linhof, Sinar, Wenham, Fotoman China, Goaersi, Wista, Arca, Sylvestri, Chamonix, Horseman, Ebony, Shen-Hao, Tachihara, and many more.

First, decide what part of the industry is suffering before you say film is near dead. The fine art market is doing well, but like any other specialty item (jaguar autos, errari,etc....you wait longer, less choices, travel farther, all are expected inconveniences (but if you want it, Mpex or Badger has it or can get it). People are not buying 44 inch printers just for their little dslr. Digital backs are unaffordable, and still do not match 4x5.

When I see large format mfrs disappearing, and their product lines reduced to one or two products (not a dozen), then I;ll worry about film. Ever look at how extensive the ebony or chamonix product line is? They didn't start-up thinking that business will be over in 5 years. Linhof would not have upgraded their technica (to model 3000), or updated the technorama. The market is smaller, film choices in large format are leaner (but all there), and new film products developed (Ektar 100). Even Polaroid is back in business. Don't just look at the small format mkt and tell us film is dead...rather look at the entire industry. Every pro still shoots his large format camera for personal work (allows bigger prints, more portable then sBetterlight scanning backs, far cheaper), they just gave up their 35mm and 120 formats. Large format is "high-end" photography, and the cheapest route for the absolute best quality while remaining affordable. Under $1000 and your in business, and you pay-as-you-go for shooting film (no massive depreciation if your not using your digital back everyday).

Well, if film is dead, I got to ask....do you have a P65 digital back (only $50k plus body, lenses, tax). This market is shrinking....people are finding they get by with a high-end dslr (that is weatherproof, and faster frame rate).....leaving only a small market wanting a digital back. The wedding/journalist/amateur/sports/magazine market is dominated by the dslr, and I don't think they will switch. Digital backs are now sandwished in the middle, better then a dslr (but not beating the 4x5 or larger formats), and cost 20x more then necessary.

Lets not get into stitching either, because I can stich large format also (eg- two 4x5 gives 4x10)....so there is no way of catching up, and your light would be changing trying to catch up doing 30-50 or more exposures.

 

[nsurit]

B&H has Kodak Porta 160NC and Ektachrome tungsten in 5X7. Not a bunch of choices. Bill Barber

 

[DanielStone]

Lets not get into stitching either, because I can stich large format also (eg- two 4x5 gives 4x10)....

(4) 4x5's make an 8x10, not 2

I know, I'm being picky

-Dan

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Sal, it helps if you know what is going on in the market...

Van, I'm completely conversant with what's going on in the market.

...number of mfrs of film cameras (for large format) has actually increased ...Chamonix are newcomers. The product lines are expanding....formats like...6.5x8.5...and other odd sizes have been added...We have over 15 mfrs of large format cameras (...Ebony...First, decide what part of the industry is suffering before you say film is near dead...

I encouraged Chamonix to expand its production and number of formats, ordered the first Ebony 6x5x8.5 camera and never said film is near dead. Please reread my quote:

...I don't believe it will be too many years before all color sheet film is gone. In my opinion, unless you're interested in black and white, large format may not be the thing to pursure. I also suspect the end of color film in other formats won't be far behind...

Note my statement is limited to color film

...The market is smaller, film choices in large format are leaner (but all there), and new film products developed (Ektar 100)...Don't just look at the small format mkt and tell us film is dead...Well, if film is dead, I got to ask....do you have a P65 digital back...

Color film still exists and Kodak decided to expand the sizes it coats Ektar in, but the market is shrinking. I see black and white film surviving for at least a couple of decades, perhaps longer, but not color. I don't have a P65 digital back, but did purchase a Canon G9 several years ago under pressure from the publisher of a specialty magazine for which my wife writes an occasional article. I don't like it and use it only for that purpose, but having my color 4x5s scanned was becoming difficult and unacceptable for the publication. Many, if not most, publications now insist on receiving digital files.

Color film sales are driven by snapshooters and commercial work. Both of those market segments are on a steep glide slope toward volume so low it won't support Kodak and/or Fuji. The few folks such as you who do fine work from color film originals won't keep color film around no matter how much you want it to be there.

B&H has Kodak Porta 160NC and Ektachrome tungsten in 5X7. Not a bunch of choices. Bill Barber

The 160NC requires that one purchase a minimum of 30 boxes:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/260237-USA/Kodak_1355825_Portra_160NC_5x7_50_Sheets.html

The EPY is not 5x7, it's 13x18cm

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/388286-USA/Kodak_1237171_EPY_6118_13_x.html

and Kodak has announced that EPY is discontinued in all formats. So if you want that, order a lifetime supply and make sure you have some 13x18cm holders to put it in.

 

[Van Camper]

"(4) 4x5's make an 8x10, not 2 . I know, I'm being picky "

-Dan

If you read it again, it says two 4x5's make 4x10.

 

[Van Camper]

"Color film still exists and Kodak decided to expand the sizes it coats Ektar in, but the market is shrinking. I see black and white film surviving for at least a couple of decades, perhaps longer, but not color. Color film sales are driven by snapshooters and commercial work. Both of those market segments are on a steep glide slope toward volume so low it won't support Kodak and/or Fuji. The few folks such as you who do fine work from color film originals won't keep color film around no matter how much you want it to be there."

Color going, only b/w? Hey, you've been at APUG too long, join another forum and get back to reality. I do wildlife art, and a lot of people are shooting film and digital, and color only. You choose what is appropriate for the situation. BW is a small segment in the art world.

Shrinking? The steep decline you speak of has already happened (the smoke is over in the 35mm and 120 market). About 75% of the market is amateur/pro-sumer/wedding/journalist/sports/magazine, and they already went to a dslr that satisfies their needs 100%....it was at its worse around 2006. Most of the restructuring has taken place, we're now seeing fine tuning (the big stuff like closing labs, retail stores dumping film cameras is done). These were all expected in a market chopped in half when digital technology arrived. Yet at Photokina 2008 everyone was reporting "large format" film sales have stabilized (from the horses mouth...the reps) (there was a url link here which no longer exists) and also check ....
Dead Link Removed . So we will see what Photokina 2010 brings.

It is not over for large format...
1. We have over 15 mfrs of large format equipment, and product lines are expanding.
2. We've seen upgrades to the Technica, Technorama, Fotoman, Chamonix, etc.....not
something you see if things are ending for an industry.
2. Kodak made a 10 year guarantee to supply film.
3. You don't get rid of something until you have something of equal quality that is
affordable. Not even the p65 digital back matches 4x5, and we have a long way to
go for 8x10.
4. Alternative processes- nothing in digital to match contact print quality up to 20x24
5. New formats introduced (eg- 5x8, 7x17)...you would think what we have would be
enough, but now we have ultra large format.
6. Digital is still unable to satisfy many other needs such as:

- large format film is still the "high-end" in photography (excluding stitching, and scan backs which are not practical).
- large format film allows making the biggest prints (a p45 is good only to 27 inches at 300ppi before running out of pixels)
- film has a "proven" long life, a important criteria for fine artists. It can be scanned 50 yrs from now on an office flatbed. No need for multiple hard drives, or constantly backing up to newer technology, or worry about obsolete drivers/operating system (apple) and software .
- costs- cheap to buy, cheap to shoot (pay-as-you-go). No heavy depreciation from sitting around in the closet. Perfect for wedding/sports/magazine photographers who never have a need for a p65 digital back, but would like to do personal work at the best quality level.
- film is the best choice in extreme conditions (snow/rain/heat/cold/sandy/underwater/hiking). Ruining a roll or sheet of film is far cheaper then a $40k digital back.
- film offers cheap backup. Can you afford 2 digital backs for $40k in the field?
- film satisfies the needs of elderly market (not comfy with computers, downloading, etc).
- film satisfies needs of poorer countries. This is why 35mm film is still updated. Not everyone can afford to follow the 18mth cycle. Different parts of the world are years behind.
- film is needed to satisfy existing users of medium format (and combined with a Nikon 9000 beats any dslr). A 6x9/612 negative scanned on a drum or Nikon 9000 (stitched) will outperform a P45 at 30 inches or bigger because it doesn't run out of pixels under heavy enlargement.
- film doesn't need repairs, digital backs do (a $40k back will hit the wallet like a drum scanner needing servicing).

If your still not sure, why did FUji introduce the new Folder 6x7 FILM camera? Why introduce Ektar 100 in large format up to 8x10? Sure the market is far smaller, it is a niche specialty market now. You now order your 120 and large format film, or camera, and processing is moving that way to (process at home or by mail). It is about demand and supply..... and lesser choices in a smaller market. The problem is too many amateurs making amateur comments...they see film cameras disappear at wallmart, all their friends shooting dslr, labs disappearing, and they think it is all over....yet never have seen a large format camera in their life.

As for some of your films disappearing...come on, it's not like we don't have film choices in transparency or negative. A smaller market means less choices, get use to it (remember the market got chopped in half and digital is good for some things, and film for others). Some people just like traditional ways, that is enough reason...loading film, under the cloth, big groundglass, not spray and pray, and the smell of fixer (next best to coffee).

Digital is now reaching maturity, and still it has not killed film. Instead how many times do you hear of a digital shooter wanting more quality then his 5DII provides, and large format suits his needs for further quality while adding tilt/swing and perspective control.

 

[AgX]

Fuji:

Provia 100F

Velvia 50

Velvia 100

Velvia 100F


Ilford:

Ortho (13x18)

FP 4

HP5

Delta 100


Foma:

Fomapan 100 (13x18)


Efke:

Efke 25

Efke 100


Rollei:

Rollei Ortho

 

[Fredrik Sandstrom]

Thanks for the list AgX! Since you're in Germany, can you suggest a European source for these Fuji films? Because of customs and taxes, I'd much prefer to order from inside EU.

Fuji:
Provia 100F
Velvia 50
Velvia 100
Velvia 100F