5x4 options

[Gary Holliday]

It's been a long time since I have used a 5x4. I was trained on a Sinar and loved the transparencies that came back from the lab.

I'm considering a 5x4 for some colour work and would like a camera with very few movements for speed of use.

What are the options?

 

[Ian Grant]

Crown or Speed Graphic, don't pay silly money - UK prices can be far too high compared to buying in the US, even if you end up paying the 22% Duty etc. Movements are very basic and can be a bit limiting.

Of course a cheap MPP would be just as good.

Ian

 

[Nick Zentena]

I'm considering a 5x4 for some colour work and would like a camera with very few movements for speed of use.

Nobody forces you to use any movements. Just don't loosen the knobs.

 

[DBP]

Also B&J Press, though the Graphics are a bit sturdier.

 

[Dave Miller]

It's been a long time since I have used a 5x4. I was trained on a Sinar and loved the transparencies that came back from the lab.

I'm considering a 5x4 for some colour work and would like a camera with very few movements for speed of use.

What are the options?

Since you didn't say it had to be cheap look at one of the advertisers here: Dead Link Removed

 

[Trevor Crone]

If you've not already done so have a look at the Ebony RSW45. Has just front rise, fall and tilt.

Being none folding its ready to use straight from the bag with a lens attached. Weighs 1.5kg (without lens), limited to a 180mm lens (non-telephoto) before having to use extension tubes and/or extender back.

 

[Gary Holliday]

Since you didn't say it had to be cheap look at one of the advertisers here: Dead Link Removed

I don't normally do cheap! I'm liking the handheld Fotoman...that's what I'm aiming for...the quality of a larger negative with speed of use.

 

[Dave Miller]

I don't normally do cheap! I'm liking the handheld Fotoman...that's what I'm aiming for...the quality of a larger negative with speed of use.

Good for you.

Why not go all the way and get the 10x8 bicep builder?

 

[RobC]

I beleive Joe Cornish uses or at least he did use an Ebony. That would be a good choice depending on what type of photography you are doing.

The choice should be made first on the lenses you want to use and then the camera which will support those lenses. If its field/landscape work then a Master Tecknika with rangefinder focussing doesn't get any quicker. Why? Because if you can close the camera with lens attached, then you just fold out the front and slide the front standard to the infinity stop, fine focus in the rangefinder with film holder in place and darkslide pulled and shoot. It can be thrown in a light backpack with a few film holders or quickloads and takes minimal space. Can even be handheld.
With the ebony, it will need to be packed much more carefully, maybe taking lens off and you will need to focus on GG with loupe before inserting film holder. But it is a good camera.
The technika or variant is very versatile but has limits on focal length lenses, but then so do all other field cameras.
If its architectural work then you may need very short focal length lenses. If shifts are required with those then a technika is not so good and a camera with a bag bellows comes into its own.

You really haven't told us enough about the type of photography you want it for.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Nobody forces you to use any movements. Just don't loosen the knobs.

I agree with Nick - it's always better to have and not need than need and not have.

You'll not get out of drawing the bellows out, I'm afraid.

Go ahead and get another Sinar - the "P"s are cheap enough anymore.

 

[John Kasaian]

I don't normally do cheap! I'm liking the handheld Fotoman...that's what I'm aiming for...the quality of a larger negative with speed of use.

Then what you want is a Speed Graphic with infinity stops and grafmatics. If you must buy something "not cheap" then look at a Linhof Technika

 

[Gary Holliday]

You really haven't told us enough about the type of photography you want it for.

Thanks for the suggestions so far...
It will be for landscapes/ seascapes. So a standard lens and maybe a wide lens.

This is probably a bad idea! Once I see the results I'll want to use it for B&W also, then I'll be purchasing new enlargers.

 

[Martin Aislabie]

Gary, Robert White does various 5x4 Shen Hao from about £400+VAT
It might be worth a look
He also does the Fotoman range too
I bought an Ebony about 12months ago - AND ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT
They are absolutely lovely to hold and use - but I do admit they are not the cheapest way of getting into 5x4 - and an expensive camera does not automaticaly generate great photos
Dave Miller recently bought a Shen Hao - don't know which one - but he might be willing to share his thoughts
However, be warned - its very slippery (and expensive) slope your starting down
Have fun
Martin

 

[RobC]

The Master technika is good down to a 90 lens. If you want really wide angle then a technika 2000 or 3000 is better but you will get limited shift and also loose the rangefinder focussing. Note that rangefinder focussing does require each lens to be individually cammed in to your camera and the people in UK who do it are Linhof & Studio..
However, until you try the lenses you will not know how wide, or not, you really want. Try and go out with someone who has a 4x5 or borrow one to see how you find the different focal length lenses. Its not as simple as just getting the medium or 35mm format equivalent length. 4x5 gives a different vision.
The Ebony is good because it is in fixed alignment due to no swing and it has a good GG system.
Note that most field cameras focus by moving the front standard which is fine for landscape but not good for still life and close ups.
Its a difficult decision buying your first 4x5 because until you have used one for a while you don't really know what features you really need or want.
But Linhof Technika has remained at the top for a reason. Its really rigid and built to last. Not the lightest but protects itself when its folded up which many light cameras don't. As a result, you don't need so much packing for it so the extra weight is offset by needing less protection and with the right lense you can fold it away with lens on. That usually means a lens with a smaller max aperture but for speed and weight thats a good thing. There's a lot to think about.

 

[Dave Miller]

Martin is correct in saying I have a Shen Hao, it’s a TZ45-IIA, and I have several lens from 90 to 240mm. It’s a lovely camera, and a pleasure to use. But, quick it is not, so it doesn’t fit your criteria of “speed of use”, hence my suggestion of a fixed lens/ fixed focus type such as the Fotoman which I think does, especially if you add a Grafmatic film holder.

 

[Falkenberg]

I may have missed this, somewhere in the thread, but I have a hard time with the equation "speed of use" for Landscapes in a largeformat camera. I am sure that Handheld landscapes are great and somewhat different. I just cant imagine doing landscapes without a tripod.

My advice is to go to a dealer that have the different types of cameras, and ask them to let You try them. That way You will find the camera that best suit Your needs.

 

[Gary Holliday]

Ok just to clear a few things up. I don't intentionally buy expensive gear, but that's the way things usually pan out. I'm assuming the handheld 5 4s have a tripod thread or plate. I would prefer a camera that is straightforward, quick to set up and is easy to carry around. So no need for a technical camera as such...just the larger negative.

Dave, I woke up thinking about that 10x8 and contact prnting.

 

[Dave Miller]

 

[Ole]

I do shoot hand held from time to time - like this one shot with a 4x5" Anniversary Speed Graphic and a 3 1/4" "Portable Rectilinear":

Or this one - from a 5x7" Linhof Technika with a 300mm f:4.5 Xenar:

Dead Link Removed

One thing that I find really speeds things up when shooting LF is something that noone has mentioned yet: Fast lenses.

A brighter image on the GG coupled with less DoF makes focussing the camera on the GG a lot easier, and the effects of tilt/swing are immediately obvious.

 

[RobC]

Ok just to clear a few things up. I don't intentionally buy expensive gear, but that's the way things usually pan out. I'm assuming the handheld 5 4s have a tripod thread or plate. I would prefer a camera that is straightforward, quick to set up and is easy to carry around. So no need for a technical camera as such...just the larger negative.

Dave, I woke up thinking about that 10x8 and contact prnting.

Well not to put you off but 4x5 doesn't always give you the extra quality you may be looking for. There are far more things to go wrong, particularly film flatness. And if you are using tilt to get sharpness from foreground to horizon line, then any film flatness problem or slightly misaligned camera can throw your focus plane off what you think will be sharp. Thats one reason why I think a camera with a rigid back and only front movements can be simpler to use and give you more consistent results. Have you looked at http://www.walkercameras.com/titan-xl-wide-5x7-thumbs.html
If you want a big neg for scanning to make big digital prints, then a 5x7 will give you almost twice as much film area as a 4x5 and his cameras are well priced. Many 4x5 lenses will cover 5x7 adequately but with limited shift capability unless you go for lenses designed for 5x7. For example I have a schneider Super SYmmar 5.6/110 XL which will cover 5x7 and is very sharp. Its also quite light and compact.

On the other hand if its just the tilt that you really want, then a Rollei SL66 or a fuji GX680 may be what you need. Depends what the driving force behind the decision for 4x5 is.

 

[Dave Miller]

Gary, have you considered a 20" x 24" compact?

 

[RobC]

Gary, have you considered a 20" x 24" compact?

20x24? Kids stuff. You want one of these big boys cameras

 

[Gary Holliday]

Maybe Simon will cut some UUUUUUUULF Pan F for me. Ok this is getting out of hand. :

 

[Dave Miller]

20x24? Kids stuff. You want one of these big boys cameras

That's what I meant; a compact.

 

[Falkenberg]

Or the new 20x24" folding camere - fits in every bag ;-)