53 years old DC Motor and electronic card repair

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Aug 18, 2013

I bought an Leicina 8s from 1960 to single frame use. I am expecting the worst and dc motor and electronic card is not working. Is it possible to rewire the coil - if there is any - and replacing the brushes with todays materials. If there is magnet inside , is it possible to resurrect it with electric.

And what about electronic card ? Is there any ic use at that era , do parts are available ?

Umut

AgX · Aug 18, 2013

I would guess that rewinding a coil (with all the preperation necessary) is a hassle in no relation to obtaining another sample of that camera.

But more general:
Obtaining a more recent Super-8 camera with single frame release locally with the means to test it basically on place (they typically take AA-batteries) should be the better way to obtain single photographs.
You would get more choices of cameras and probably more variety on films.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Aug 18, 2013

My neighbor is working in recoiling industry. He can do this but I need to know what are the variables ? I dont think he is knowlagable about micro motors but I bought that camera extreme cheap and I dont use anything but Leica. I am fond of Leicina lenses for 3 years and I watched comparisons of these japanese cameras and they are more than horrible. I think they hire japanese fisherman for 3 months contract and they design the camera and lens.

What about electronic card ?

AgX · Aug 18, 2013

That should be reasonable simple. Open the camera to get access to the wiring and have some electronics specialist find out the source of the trouble.
Are you sure the problem is not originating in the battery compartment?
From experience with cine-cameras of the same age I can say that even a switch could be the source. Actuate all switches several times before considering a more serious failure. Just this week I had such a case. It did not work at all. Some actuating of the speed selector made it work at some attempts, then regularly.

Bill Burk · Aug 18, 2013

Umut,

You can easily rule out a motor issue by measuring voltage as you turn the motor by hand - it should become a small generator. Your neighbor would tell you in a second.

If your problem is not in coils, you will be better off.

Without knowing facts, I will just guess that circuit boards from that era were a lot simpler. They still make most electronic parts.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Aug 18, 2013

Thank you AgX and Bill,

There is least 4 weeks to camera reach me. It was so cheap , I am expecting an malfunction but may be I am wrong , I wish I was. My neighbor is at holiday and there is one week to return. Your tips are priceless , please forgive my ignorance but is there a digital processor in these cameras ? IC or something like that to be needed to programmed ? Or everything is analog ? What about the transistors , are they galium or modern silicon ?

Thank you very much for your time,
Umut

AgX · Aug 18, 2013

There was not even an IC back then. And transistors had only been introduced in consumer products a few years before.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Aug 18, 2013

AgX , If there are transistors broken on the card , is it possible to replace with modern ones ?

Umut

shutterfinger · Aug 18, 2013

DC motor- most likely corrosion on the armature (copper). Brushes (carbon) may be worn if the motor had high use. A motor of that era that failed got tossed. Most if not all were sealed and not intended to be repaired although they can be repaired with skill and patience.

The electrical components on the card can be replaced depending on how good of an electronics parts supply you have. Some transistors will be hard to replace as they may have become obsolete. The electrolytic capacitors are the most likely failed component. You can identify them by their polarity markings on their side.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Aug 18, 2013

shutterfinger ,

Is it possible to find replacement modern dc motor for that camera ? Who can repair such a motor and replace transistors ? Do Leica still stocks such transistors and capacitors and the motor or where to look ?

Thank you ,

Umut

Tom1956 · Aug 18, 2013

Hold on. There might be nothing wrong with it. Although wherever electrolytics are, I summarily replace them.

shutterfinger · Aug 18, 2013

I work with large format cameras. I use to repair stereo, TV, and related electronics.
Small and miniature DC motors are in use in many applications. The ratings should be printed on the motor, voltage, current, RPM and your neighbor should be able to help you pick one that will work if you need a new one.
Use your search engine of choice and search for miniature DC motor or small DC motor, the results will be much different from what I get as we are half the world away from each other.
Then search for electronic components to find replacements for bad ones. There may be a store near you. Some of the biggest electronics manufactures are in Europe.

I was given a Keystone K430. Has no batteries and I do not know what batteries go in it. Want it cheap?

Bill Burk · Aug 18, 2013

My thought is that since this is a Leica, the components would be of very high quality. The only transistor(s) needed would be in the exposure circuit. In my Super8 Bolex the meter circuit is powered by mercury batteries, while the motor circuit is powered by 4 AA batteries. Your camera might have the same kind of division between the light-duty exposure circuit and the heavy-duty motor and shutter circuit.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Aug 18, 2013

Tom , Shutterfinger , Bill,

I contacted with seller , a shop from Holland and he said to me lens is perfect and there is no dent , spill , bump , scratch on the body. He says there would not be any problem but camera is not tested.

I contacted with Leica Germany and waiting a CLA quote.

I think I got it about micromotors. There is a Leica distribütör and their repair person here , now I will write him. At least he can find the schematics and Leica advise.

Bill , as Bolex it is. There is two sections , one with mercury battery , one with 4 AA batteries. I will report back with the replies since all Google read this.

Thank you,
Umut

Dan Fromm · Aug 18, 2013

Mustafa, you bought in ignorance and you worry in ignorance. You didn't know enough what you were buying, you didn't even know whether it could do what you need (why else ask whether it will shoot single frame?) and you can't know whether it operates at all until you have it in hand. Take a long walk and a cold shower and stop worrying about what may not be.

8/8 Leicinas' weak point is the battery box; connecting the batteries to each other and to the camera is a problem that can be solved.

Don't panic. Take a long walk and a cold shower.

Bill, Leitz took a long long time to accept that electricity could be used in photographic equipment. As far as I know the 8/8 Leicina was the first Leica that had any electric apparatus of any kind built into it; it gives the impression of having been designed around a spring-powered ("clockwork") motor and then reluctantly and badly converted to electric drive.

Truzi · Aug 18, 2013

The motor may be bad, but it's more likely your problem lies in the other electronic components. First I would check the wiring. After that, the capacitors mentioned are probably the most likely problem, so I would start there before worrying about transistors, then resistors, etc. The motor would probably be the last thing I checked. You can also test the motor by carefully applying a (low) voltage.

Most components on the board can be replaced by someone with skill. If a part no longer exists, something surely can be substituted, though fitting it all in the casing may present a problem.

Dan Fromm · Aug 18, 2013

Truzi, the camera in question is not in the OP's possession. It is in transit. He doesn't know whether it has any problems. He is trying to solve problems it might have in advance of knowing whether they exist. There's no point trying to help him or speculating about what problems he might have to solve.

Truzi · Aug 18, 2013

Oops, I've responded without reading thoroughly. That annoys me when others do it. Sorry.

AgX · Aug 18, 2013

Bill Burk said:
My thought is that since this is a Leica, the components would be of very high quality. The only transistor(s) needed would be in the exposure circuit. In my Super8 Bolex the meter circuit is powered by mercury batteries, while the motor circuit is powered by 4 AA batteries. Your camera might have the same kind of division between the light-duty exposure circuit and the heavy-duty motor and shutter circuit.

Such design was typical for the early Super/Single-8 cameras.

ic-racer · Aug 18, 2013

AgX said:
Such design was typical for the early Super/Single-8 cameras.

No, five AA batteries supply both the transport and meter in the Leicina.

Non-working Leicina is the last camera one would want for single frame shooting. That camera has extensive electronics. Even electrical contacts between the lens and body. I'd suggest one of the many totally mechanical spring-wound Bolex Regular-8 cameras for your project.

This schematic for the external controller and instructions how to open the camera up, may be of help.

ic-racer · Aug 18, 2013

Some pages from the service manual. Again, I'd shy away from servicing this.
http://cjoint.com/11jn/AFfqwC87e41_33-36.pdf
http://cjoint.com/11jn/AFfqxyHefKn_43.pdf
http://cjoint.com/11jn/AFfqAOMXs0y_163.pdf
http://cjoint.com/11jn/AFfqAgNCE6y_161.pdf
http://cjoint.com/11jn/AFfqzIO574r_141.pdf
http://cjoint.com/11jn/AFfqzeUPBb9_111.pdf
http://cjoint.com/11jn/AFfqyGfAVbp_108.pdf
http://cjoint.com/11jn/AFfqx77ra8L_106.pdf

Bill Burk · Aug 18, 2013

ic-racer, I don't think Umut is going to receive the Super-8 Leicina. From the earlier posts, I believe it is an older, simpler Regular-8 model.

ic-racer · Aug 18, 2013

Bill Burk said:
ic-racer, I don't think Umut is going to receive the Super-8 Leicina. From the earlier posts, I believe it is an older, simpler Regular-8 model.

Thanks, Bill. Would it be this one? http://www.super8data.com/database/cameras_list/cameras_leicina/leicina_8s.htm

Dan Fromm · Aug 18, 2013

Bill, ic-racer's post #21 in this thread contains links to a few pages from the Leicina 8s and 8sv service manual. These are both 8/8 cameras. None of the pages is particularly relevant to the OP's major concern, dead motor and dead electronics. They do, though, make the point that there's little in the way of electronics in those cameras.

Ic, even a humble Bell & Howell would do, and the better grade of clockwork B&H cine cameras have good lenses too. I shot with one off and on from '55 to '61, got fine footage. Not, of course, as fine as my father did when he took it to Japan in '53.

Dan Fromm · Aug 18, 2013

Ic, that's what our boy bought. No single frame.

53 years old DC Motor and electronic card repair

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