510-Pyro

[jstraw]

Mike, you can safely reduce the viscosity of 510-Pyro and other developers mixed in TEA by adding some warm (80 - 100 F) Propylene Glycol to the mix.

Can you say more about this? Do you cut the stock made with TEA with however much P.G. and factor that into the dilutions?

IE: 400ml 510-Pyro + 400ml P.G. then 1:50 for 1:100 dilution

Does the P.G. have any effect on keeping qualities?

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

Can you say more about this? Do you cut the stock made with TEA with however much P.G. and factor that into the dilutions?

IE: 400ml 510-Pyro + 400ml P.G. then 1:50 for 1:100 dilution

Does the P.G. have any effect on keeping qualities?

No, the P.G. is inert.

When the TEA is mixed with water it provides the alkali that activates the developer - the P.G. is fully soluble in water and it is inert. I only add enough P.G. to lower the viscosity of the TEA a little.

 

[juan]

IIRC, when Jay was still active on the forums, we discussed replacing 10% of the TEA with glycol. The idea was that there would still be sufficient TEA, so that the times and dilutions would not change. I don't know that anyone actually made the tests, though.
j

 

[craigclu]

IIRC, when Jay was still active on the forums, we discussed replacing 10% of the TEA with glycol. The idea was that there would still be sufficient TEA, so that the times and dilutions would not change. I don't know that anyone actually made the tests, though.
j

I was corresponding with Jay back then and giving him feedback and test results. I could discern no difference with the small amount of PG.

I had posted regarding shadow density issues earlier in this thread and got no responses. The current message activity in here got me pulling out 510 info and I re-ran a film test on HP5+. I love the fine grain, midtones and controlled highlights but the shadows are so dead and empty for me. My blue channel (I don't have UV) curves bear this out, too. I really feel that I have given this soup a fair amount of trial and by the time I get shadow detail to emerge, I'm at extremes of the curve and struggle to get tones to paper as I would like. Is anyone else struggling with this? This developer seems to have people very polarized as to their affections for it. If I could solve my low zone density issues, I would love the stuff. I'll admit to not being a soot and chalk fan so perhaps I'm more sensitive to the behavior?

 

[Discpad]

I had posted regarding shadow density issues earlier in this thread and got no responses. The current message activity in here got me pulling out 510 info and I re-ran a film test on HP5+. I love the fine grain, midtones and controlled highlights but the shadows are so dead and empty for me. My blue channel (I don't have UV) curves bear this out, too. I really feel that I have given this soup a fair amount of trial and by the time I get shadow detail to emerge, I'm at extremes of the curve and struggle to get tones to paper as I would like. Is anyone else struggling with this? This developer seems to have people very polarized as to their affections for it. If I could solve my low zone density issues, I would love the stuff. I'll admit to not being a soot and chalk fan so perhaps I'm more sensitive to the behavior?

Craig, what was the agitation you used? What were you rating the HP5+ at?

 

[craigclu]

Craig, what was the agitation you used? What were you rating the HP5+ at?

I was shooting at 200 on the recent test that I mentioned. I agitate for 1 minute with gentle inversions and then 2 gentle inversions/minute after. As I write this, I can't recall the exact time I used but the highlights and mid-tones were at nice density levels but the shadows were rather empty again.

What is your routine?

 

[mikebarger]

My daughter has been trying Foma 200 in 35mm.

We used 1:200 developed it for 15 minutes, agitate first 45 seconds, then two turns at 5 minutes and two turns at 10 minutes.

Temp was 80 degrees, best we could get out of the tap tonight.

Negatives came out nice, but she will have to work some on her close focus skills. This was my first shot at semi stand.

Tones and grain looked good.

I hadn't seen to much semi stand info for 510 pyro, so I'd thought I'd post the details.


Mike

 

[c6h6o3]

My daughter has been trying Foma 200 in 35mm.

We developed it for 15 minutes, agitate first 45 seconds, then two turns at 5 minutes and two turns at 10 minutes.

Temp was 80 degrees, best we could get out of the tap tonight.

Negatives came out nice, but she will have to work some on her close focus skills. This was my first shot at semi stand.

Tones and grain looked good.

I hadn't seen to much semi stand info for 510 pyro, so I'd thought I'd post the details.


Mike

510 is a terrific developer for semi-stand work. Jay used to say that you should dilute it 1:500, but I've gotten great results at 1:200. If I use any greater dilution I don't seem to get good shadow detail.

 

[jstraw]

I use it 1:500 and 1:100.

 

[mikebarger]

Should have mentioned, this was 1:200

Mike

 

[juan]

I've used it at 1:300.

With regard to film speed with this developer, some report that film speed is a bit slow. Jay always said it was full speed. I wonder if he actually tested the speed, or if he just took photos. His photography was almost completely dedicated to family portraits, which makes he think he would have been most concerned with the high and midtone values, rather than the low values.

Just a thought.
juan

 

[Snapshot]

I've recently tried 510-Pyro and compared it to some film developed in XTOL. I took some pictures of the same subject (some Canadian Tire money and a Kodak grey scale separation guide). I shot APX 100 at various EI to get a good cross section of shots. I wanted the comparison to give me clarity as to the qualities of each developer.

I developed the APX 100 for 9 minutes in 510-Pyro and 9.75 minutes in XTOL. I found the results interesting. Upon inspection, the XTOL film seemed to exhibit finer grain but when printed, my friends were split as to which was less grainy, the XTOL prints or the 510-Pyro. I definitely preferred the blacks of the 510 formula and gradation was better. As for sharpness, the 510-Pyro was noticeably sharper.

All in all, I was very happy with the 510-Pyro and will use it as a film developer. Oh, it can develop paper too.

 

[mikebarger]

Have you used it for paper development? I'd like to hear what you like/don't like about 510 pyro on paper. Only one developer sounds interesting....

Truth told, I'd be hard pressed to give up on Ansco 130.

Mike

 

[Snapshot]

I don't think you'll give up Ansco 130 but I got some pleasing warm tones with the 510-Pyro as a paper developer. The blacks are nice and prints come out a rich dark brown tone. Try a 1:25 dilution and a 1.5 minute development time for RC paper. I don't know what it's keeping properties would be, however, and can imagine it wouldn't be particularly long.

 

[Mark Booth]

Mike,
Thanks for sharing your experiences with 510 Pyro. I too use 510 Pyro along with P-TEA when speed isn't as much of a consideration. Your development times as stated look about right. I work with both MF roll film and LF sheet film. Printing on fiber VC with an Omega D2V condenser head and the Radeka Contrast Masking system. I find this developer extremely pleasing because it displays the unique aesthetic qualities of traditional pyro formulations, with film speed and general fog (similar) to Pyrocat HD - M or P variants. The developer truly last for years if not decades while in stock solution, resist streaking, and can be used with semi-stand or even stand processes if desired. I would never argue that Pyrocat HD and its excellent line of variants are either inferior or superior to the 510 Pyro formulation, but certainly in the same league of excellence in general with each other, each being unique in character. From my perspective its more about my aesthetic response to the developer and final print, than quantitative analysis, since my interest is more empirical in nature than some may gravitate toward. Having stated this position, I have used either 510 Pyro or P-TEA several hundred times since their inception and feel very comfortable with their use. If I really need a speed increasing formula then I migrate toward GSD-10 formulation. Each of these formulations and blog comments pertaining to them, can be found on Jay DeFehr's website: http://pyrostains.blogspot.com/ Please keep in mind, that Jay as of recent, isn't able to respond to comments for personal reasons until further notice--respect his privacy please. So you'll want to keep this in mind if you intend to post a question on his blog. He has however, provided a very informative site, with plenty of information on all of his developers and technical use. Jay is a great guy! Of course, those of us actively using organic solvent developers have much appreciation to give to Patrick Gainer and his monumental research on this matter, and kindness to share with us "backyard mechanics" in classic photography.
Cheers,
Mark Booth

 

[PeterB]

510-pyro kits still made ?

Hi folks,

Does anyone know if the 510-pyro kits are still made ? Artcraft doesn't seem to list them anymore.

regards
Peter

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Artcraft will make any kit to order. You could just ask them.

 

[mikebarger]

They recently told me they will no longer make this kit.

 

[Snapshot]

They recently told me they will no longer make this kit.

Its easy to mix on your own as it consists of only 4 chemicals. Heat up the TEA until it is warm and mix in the Vitamin C, Pyrogallol and Phenidone.

 

[JBrunner]

What color is the stain?

 

[Snapshot]

What color is the stain?

The stain will be a light brown. Highlights will be translucent.

 

[Discpad]

Hi folks, Does anyone know if the 510-pyro kits are still made ? Artcraft doesn't seem to list them anymore.

Hi Peter!

Although I don't have it listed, I sell 510-Pyro in 4, 8 and 16 ounce sizes. Please PM me.

 

[PeterB]

Its easy to mix on your own as it consists of only 4 chemicals. Heat up the TEA until it is warm and mix in the Vitamin C, Pyrogallol and Phenidone.

Hi Jason,

I don't own an accurate set of scales as I haven't mixed my own chemistry yet.. So if it came pre measured and I have success with it then I'll probably buy a set of scales.

I would like to use it with some rolls of 33mm HIE I have stored away in my freezer.

regards
Peter

 

[PeterB]

Do you use 510-Pyro ?

I love the fine grain, midtones and controlled highlights but the shadows are so dead and empty for me. My blue channel (I don't have UV) curves bear this out, too. I really feel that I have given this soup a fair amount of trial and by the time I get shadow detail to emerge, I'm at extremes of the curve and struggle to get tones to paper as I would like. Is anyone else struggling with this? This developer seems to have people very polarized as to their affections for it. If I could solve my low zone density issues, I would love the stuff. I'll admit to not being a soot and chalk fan so perhaps I'm more sensitive to the behavior?

Can people who are using or have used 510-Pyro let us know if you also have concerns about the shadow detail in your prints ?

regards
Peter

 

[PeterB]

510-Pyro : are you happy with its shadow detail?

Can people who are using or have used 510-Pyro let us know if you also have concerns about the shadow detail in your prints ?

In the absence of any replies to my question, I might re-phrase it....

Can people who are using or have used 510-Pyro let me know if you are happy with the shadow detail in your prints ?

regards
Peter