500 c/m vs. RB

[Jim Rice]

With the 58 on the 'Flex I shot wide open at 1/8th in a pinch and the results were astounding.

 

[Jim Rice]

At one time, I had the same tape in 2" format.

 

[Jim Rice]

And 1/2".

 

[Jim Rice]

Though that was a couple of lifetimes ago.

 

[Alan Gales]

Do you find yourself shying from long exposures hand-held?

Personally, I don't shoot any slower than 1/60th of a second with any camera hand held. Shooting hand held at slow speeds is not recommended for the Hasselblad. I believe the mirror plays a lot into this. I saw a test once between a Rollieflex TLR, Hasselblad 500cm and a Mamiiya RZ67. Of course the Rollieflex won but what was surprising was that the RZ came in second. The testers figured the added bulk and weight dampened the mirror a bit.

If you like shooting slow hand held I would recommend the Rollieflex TLR.

 

[HTF III]

Well in case you're interested, here's a link: http://www.tapeheads.net/
There's some guys on there who are as smart about tape recorders as PE and MichaelR1974 are on this one.

 

[Jim Rice]

The 2" was a Scully 100-16 (I know, it has a terrible reputation as a tape eater (it is said to have eaten an Hendrix master.) The secret is in the zenith alignment(( contrary to the manual.)) ) The 1/2" was an MCI converted to half-track (now THAT was a sweet sweet machine.)

 

[HTF III]

The 2" machine was a Scully 100-16 (I know, it has a terrible reputation as a tape eater. The secret is in the zenith alignment(( contrary to the manual.)) ) The 1/2" was an MCI converted to half-track (now THAT was a sweet sweet machine.)

I'm going to have to remember you. I've got a LOT to learn. I just got me a Leader LMV 89. Kinda old, but it's going to beat this cheapo digital multimeter I've been using. Tomorrow a buddy is going to let me re-do his Ampex ATR 700 the right way. I promise to not crowd you with PM's. Regards--HTF

 

[Jim Rice]

You may ask me anything. Just remember it has been a while and I am old and tired.

 

[Jim Rice]

 

[Jim Rice]

And that a Simpson 260 is worth it's weight in gold.

 

[Jim Rice]

Do you have a 'scope?

 

[Jim Rice]

If not you want an analog one, sampling rates are a tool of Satan.

 

[Jim Rice]

Which, I would assume, is your problem with the Leader.

 

[Jim Rice]

In digital meters, Fluke makes nice ones. Fast sampling rates and autoranging. Though this would suppliment your Simpson rather than replace it.

 

[bdial]

There is a lot of internet hype getting parroted here.

Yeah, on exposures longer than maybe 1/30 there is some risk you could let go of the botton before the exposure is completed.
If know this, and keep your finger on the release it's not an issue. It's not like releasing immediately, whatever that might, be accomplishes anythng else, since the mirror is up and stays there until you advance.

As for mirror slap, make pictures and don't worry about it. I've made high magnification macro shots with and without pre-releasing the mirror, there is no noticable difference in the images. Mirror slap isn't an issue on any exposure you can hand hold, whatever movement it could cause will be far outweighed by your body's movement.

The lens's shutter needs to be cocked before dismounting or mounting. While it's possible to release the shutter on an unmounted lens accidentally, it happens only rarely. If/when it does, just dig a coin out of your pocket, or the edge of a film spool, or whatever else and cock it.

RB's are heavier and make bigger negs, Hasselblads are lighter and make square negs. Both have great lenses and have made stunningly great pictures.

Pretty much all cameras have one particular "feature" or another that you need to be mindful of to operate successfully.

 

[jovo]

The principal reason I'd want a Blad is for the leaf shutter lenses, and absence of shutter curtain slap (it does create a small double image even with mirror lock up on exposures of several seconds.) My P67, and the Bronica SQ Ai aren't recommended for long exposures due to their electronic shutter's battery life. What I use instead is my Mamiya C330 kit. The P67 has to be rotated for 'portrait' orientation, but I don't. Instead, I treat it as if it were a 6x6 for vertical framing, and allow the width to vary depending on the subject. I would do the same with the RB or RZ. But, if I were choosing my first medium format system, and If I had the funds for it, I'd choose a Blad over any other except the Rollie SL66 (I think!).

 

[HTF III]

Sorry for bailing Jim Rice. It was late and couldn't hol my eyes open. I have a Tek 2335 100mhz 2-trace scope.

 

[mesantacruz]

Just wanted to add. i went with a rb67... i do carry it around with three lenses (50, 90, 180) and i'm very happy. when i look at a hassy, only ever on a shelf at a store, all i can think is how minuscule it looks. The RB does weigh a ton, and the hasselblad looks tempting... but you know what... i love the large negatives, and no need for cropping. you could print square pictures, but like people have mentioned in other places, you then have to look for the frame, although i think there are more now than before. Even people who shoot with 6x6 end up cropping to 6x4.5 or thereabouts... and so you might as well pick up a 6x4.5. The weight might be a serious issue for some, i especially like to have the availability of changing lenses, and so carry all 3 lenses with me. I also carry a tripod... and although i've shot at slow speeds with the mamiya (handheld), i usually never do (i use the tripod). Price, is also a major thing... i got the whole set (3 lenses, 2 backs, metered prism, polaroid back, bracket, pelican case) for less than $400 shipped on the bay. i can probably get a hassy body for that price. i wouldn't worry about optics, for the sole reason, that even if zeiss glass is 'better', the working negative becomes half the size of a 6x7 (unless you're doing square), which kind of defeats the whole purpose (I think).

all in all... weight (even if you love the system to death, if it's to heavy, you just want to stop where you're at and get the shot from there)
price (if you really want the hassy save up for it, i'm sure it's worth it)

 

[John Koehrer]

The principal reason I'd want a Blad is for the leaf shutter lenses, and absence of shutter curtain slap (it does create a small double image even with mirror lock up on exposures of several seconds.)

How? With the mirror up,it's just a leaf shutter opening and closing.

 

[jovo]

How? With the mirror up,it's just a leaf shutter opening and closing.

The P67 has a focal plane curtain shutter. It's big enough that its mass vibrates the tripod mounted camera enough to register a visible double image on an exposure of multiple (I don't remember exactly, but a bracketed series of up to 45" I think) seconds. I photographed the 59th Street bridge and some roof top views of 57th Street a few years ago at night, and that's what happened. The prints from that session are nice, but I can't go beyond 11x14 nominal without seeing the doubled point source lights on the bridge. I don't believe a leaf shutter would have allowed that.

 

[pgomena]

A basic Hasselblad is fairly light. Add a couple more lenses to the camera bag, and an extra back, and a prism finder, and suddenly it's not so light. My 4x5 field kit weighs less than my Hasselblad kit.

If your concern is image quality, there's no argument. Either one will make excellent pictures. Size and weight seem to be the major issues. Yes, you might have to crop a Hasselblad frame to fit your image to a particular paper format, but so what? 120 film is so fine-grained now, you shouldn't see grain in an 11x14" enlargement. I happen to like the square format. Some people don't.

Finally, there's price. RBs seem to go for less. They're big and kind of clunky, but they're excellent cameras. Take your pick.

 

[waynecrider]

Owned both and passed them on. My RB was a nice camera with the rotating back, but just as heavy as my 4x5. Add the metering prism and with a couple of lenses it's just as bulky as a 4x5 outfit with a handful of holders. For out and about shooting it suits tall people with big hands better. Rack out the bellows any and you'll have to comp the exposure according to the side mounted scale at the bellows without the metering prism.

I had a 501CM Hassy with a 60Cf and it was front heavy. All that great glass is weighty. Extra lenses are the expensive part. It went. Screen wasn't as good as my 6006 Rollei and lenses are generally comparable between the two. A 6008 body with grip would be a better choice but again lenses are the expensive part, especially the Schneider's for the Rollei.

In medium format having held or shot a few different one's I like the Fuji 6x7 and 6x9's. Great cameras. Mamiya makes the great 6x7 with stellar lenses, but the 6x6 is getting long in the tooth.

In the end I wouldn't buy either. I've looked at Hassy again and again thinking just a kit with a 80 might work but to tell the truth it's a boring setup. Better off with a PII Pentax.

 

[paul ron]

Yeah I'd like a Lambourghinii but all I can afford is the Farrari.. I hear it gets better gas millage anyway.

hahahahahaha

just get someting n start shooting.. you'll love anything you get.. and espeically the beautiful pictures from either camera...

Your eye matters more than the camera... ask any pin holer.

 

[Tony-S]

I understand that at current prices I should just try both, but setting up my darkroom has gone WAY over budget. I further understand that the Zeiss lenses have that little bit of magic stirred in (I have and use a Contax RTS.) I am also aware that the 'blad has operational 'issues' and that the RB is bigger and heavier So.......

If you were starting from scratch, which system would you buy into?

Have you considered a Bronica GS-1? It's the smallest and lightest of the 6x7cm, plus preserves the 4:5 aspect ratio of your 8x10.