5 Element Schneider Componon-S 50mm F2.8 info wanted

[jjphoto]

I'm trying to get info about the 5 element 4 group Schneider Componon-S 50mm F2.8 which preceded the current 6 element 4 group Schneider Componon-S 50mm F2.8. The 5 element version was only available in the older, metal body, not the later plastic body.

Does anyone have old catalogs or brochures which have any info about this 5 element lens and can anyone categorically identify the 5 element version of this lens (ie which Schneider product code identifies this lens)?

Also note that the REAR of the lens varies on otherwise apparently identical lenses, so which is the 5 element version, see examples on Ebay below?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Schneid...851417?hash=item3b37b7a019:g:7H8AAOSwrlddXsjx

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Schneid...667324?hash=item1f00c17fbc:g:WdYAAOSwo5ddap1j

Signed, 'confused'

 

[JensH]

Hi,

afaik, the Componon-S 2,8/50mm was always a 5 element 4 group design.

The 1987 prospect (Go. 482 IX/87 T6) says the Componon-S "mostly use 6 elements in 4 groups" what is right, the 50 being the exeption.
Modern type of barrel (BK15). The 1987 data sheet (#34041140587) shows clearly the 5/4 lens.

Best
Jens

 

[Mick Fagan]

I'm wondering whether there really was a 5 element unit, I cannot seem to find anything other than what Jens found. Although the English text says, "mostly" the German text says "Generally" which is in regard to the 6 elements in 4 group design.

I first used a Componon-S 50mm enlarging lens around 40+ years ago and was so impressed I thought I would get one for myself. Consequently I have Schneider Kreuznach lens brochures from the late seventies to early eighties. They mention 6 elements in 4 groups, back then.

Why are you after one of their 5 element lenses?

Mick.

 

[Ian Grant]

The 1986 Schneider lens brochure says the Componon S lenses are 6 elements in 4 groups. and the previous page lists the Componon as having the same. In both cases it's in the initial text and also in the list of Schneider Advantages

Ian

 

[AgX]

In none of my Componon-S data sheets is the number of elements stated by words, but all show a lens-sketch for at least the whole range of lenses and all these sketches show 6 lens elements.

 

[JensH]

In none of my Componon-S data sheets is the number of elements stated by words, but all show a lens-sketch for at least the whole range of lenses and all these sketches show 6 lens elements.

Hi AgX,

in my data sheed the pictured section shows clearly 5 elements in four groups.
It looks similar to the 2.8/80mm Xenotar on a Rolleiflex TLR. Not a plasmat type like the other Componon-S variants from 80mm on.

Is there anywhere a lens section (Linsenschnitt) pictured for exactly the 50mm showing 6 elements?

Best
Jens

 

[AgX]

Dedicated Componon-S 50mm 2.8 data sheet

Version 2, November 20th 2008

 

[JensH]

Dedicated Componon-S 50mm 2.8 data sheet

Version 2, November 20th 2008

View attachment 230902

Hi,

ahh, great!
Now I have learned something new. Really two versions. Thank You for that.

Have a good day
Jens

 

[jjphoto]

Hi,

afaik, the Componon-S 2,8/50mm was always a 5 element 4 group design.

The 1987 prospect (Go. 482 IX/87 T6) says the Componon-S "mostly use 6 elements in 4 groups" what is right, the 50 being the exeption.
Modern type of barrel (BK15). The 1987 data sheet (#34041140587) shows clearly the 5/4 lens.

Best
Jens

Jens, are you able to supply a link to the 1987 data sheet (#34041140587) which shows clearly the 5/4 lens? If not, can you please scan and maybe PM/DM it to me?

Thanks, John

I'm wondering whether there really was a 5 element unit, I cannot seem to find anything other than what Jens found. Although the English text says, "mostly" the German text says "Generally" which is in regard to the 6 elements in 4 group design.

I first used a Componon-S 50mm enlarging lens around 40+ years ago and was so impressed I thought I would get one for myself. Consequently I have Schneider Kreuznach lens brochures from the late seventies to early eighties. They mention 6 elements in 4 groups, back then.

Why are you after one of their 5 element lenses?

Mick.

I covet your brochures. Maybe we need to talk.

The short answer to 'why' I'm after one of their 5 element lenses is because it's shiny and I don't have one.

The long answer is because I like to use 'odd' (ie not the typical design) enlarging lenses as taking lenses with digital bodies such as the Sony A7R2. Odd lenses can have an odd rendition so are worth trying. In practice they are pretty much all the same but you never know until you try one. I have the usual 6/4 2.8/50 Componon-S (the later plastic mount version) but I am unable to properly identify the stock number of the 5/4 2.8/50 Comonon-S and I really don't want to keep buying them until I stumble across the right one!

I am genuinely interested in your brochures. Are you going to Box Hill Camera Market tomorrow? I'll be there, maybe we can meet up. I don't want to buy them, maybe borrow them to scan and return to you.

Thanks, John

EDIT, ultimately I want to post this stuff online, including scans of the brochures or relevant data sheets if I can get them, to make it available to others, a continuation of 'The Big List of Enlarging Lenses' (http://photocornucopia.com/1061.html)

 

[Ian Grant]

Hi,

ahh, great!
Now I have learned something new. Really two versions. Thank You for that.

Have a good day
Jens

If that's version 2 how do you account for the 1986 6 element/$ Groups 50mm f2.8 Componon-S ?

Ian

 

[jjphoto]

If that's version 2 how do you account for the 1986 6 element/$ Groups 50mm f2.8 Componon-S ?

Ian

I suspect the early 5 element version wasn't around for long so could easily have been updated to the 6 element version by the 1980s, but i'm guessing.

 

[Ian Grant]

The 1978 Schneider brochure states the Componon and Componon-S are symmetrical lenses, and the illustration is a 6/4 design. from memory that's not long after the Componon-S was introduced.

Ian

 

[AgX]

In none of my Componon-S data sheets is the number of elements stated by words, ...

Sorry it indeed is said in words (at the very start of the texts, where I did not expect it),

The german 1979 and 1984 versions say "in general" it is a 6/4 design, which is ambiguous. I myself however, as Jens, interprete it as "mostly, aside of exception".

 

[JensH]

Jens, are you able to supply a link to the 1987 data sheet (#34041140587) which shows clearly the 5/4 lens? If not, can you please scan and maybe PM/DM it to me?

Hi,

well, I don't know a link.
I got my data sheet (on paper) directly from Schneider-Kreuznach in 1988, before I bought my first enlarger.
I will scan it and send a PM...

Best
Jens

 

[jjphoto]

Hi,

well, I don't know a link.
I got my data sheet (on paper) directly from Schneider-Kreuznach in 1988, before I bought my first enlarger.
I will scan it and send a PM...

Best
Jens

Thanks very much. Can you please scan all sides (unless the page is completely, 100%, blank) as the date codes are some times printed on the last page of a brochure with nothing else on the page. Again, thanks very much.

 

[JensH]

Thanks very much. Can you please scan all sides (unless the page is completely, 100%, blank) as the date codes are some times printed on the last page of a brochure with nothing else on the page. Again, thanks very much.

Hi,

ok, it's just one double sided sheet...

Best
Jens

 

[JensH]

If that's version 2 how do you account for the 1986 6 element/$ Groups 50mm f2.8 Componon-S ?

Ian

Hi Ian,

it is a mystery to me...

Best
Jens

 

[jjphoto]

Jens has very kindly scanned his data sheet for the 5 element Componon-S 2.8/50 and sent them to me. I've created a pdf and put that online to share here:

http://photocornucopia.com/archive/CompS_5E4G_2f8_50/CompononS_5E4G_2f8_50.pdf

Unfortunately the data sheet doesn't give product codes for the lens so a bit more research is needed to differentiate the 5 and 6 element versions. If anyone can pin down the product code(s) for the 5 element version please let me know.

Thanks, John

 

[Ian Grant]

Unfortunately the data sheet doesn't appear to have a date code. This is usually the Roman numeral for the month and the last two digits of the year, the 1970 Componon/Componar leaflet is: 197 IX 70 T 20 e. I have a similar style (design) Schneider professional lenses review leaflet and the ref is: 225 IX 70 T 20 e, both published August 1970, the e is to denote English.

So pinning down the date of a 5 element Componon-S is difficult.

Should add the Vivitar VHE 150mm f5.6 enlarger lens is actually a Componon-S lens cells, it's in a composite barrel made just before Schneider switched I bought it maybe 1977. I think this was around the time some Meopta lenses were also Schneider cells and they may have made the Vivitar barrel.

Ian

 

[JensH]

Hi,

I suspect the last 6 numbers are the date, they always (on the ones I have at least) form a day in german syntax (dd.mm.yy), in some data sheets even separated by a space.
So the 34041140587 could be dated May 14th 1987, what makes sence as it arrived here around spring 1988.

Optical detectives at work...

Best
Jens

 

[ic-racer]

This diagram might also be of interest. It shows some five and six element Schneider Xenotar and Planar lenses to go along with our five and six element Componon-S lenses.

 

[Ian Grant]

The question seems to be why did the 50mm Comonon_S start as a 6/4 in the 70s and change to a 5 element lens later, and revert back to the 6/4 again.

Ian

 

[gorbas]

I think this was around the time some Meopta lenses were also Schneider cells and they may have made the Vivitar barrel.

Ian[/QUOTE]
Is there any real source of this information? I have Meogon S 4/80 and it's very good lens, almost as good as Componon S 80mm. I bought it new in 1989 in Prague . It was extremely unlikely for east european company to import western parts or components. Maybe it was some kind of barter for services? I can be wrong but would like to see more evidence of it?

 

[Ian Grant]

I think this was around the time some Meopta lenses were also Schneider cells and they may have made the Vivitar barrel.

Ian

Is there any real source of this information? I have Meogon S 4/80 and it's very good lens, almost as good as Componon S 80mm. I bought it new in 1989 in Prague . It was extremely unlikely for east european company to import western parts or components. Maybe it was some kind of barter for services? I can be wrong but would like to see more evidence of it?

Barry Thornton's lens tests but more importantly Martin Reed founder of Silverprint (he later sold the company) bought enlarger lens direct from Meopta. Some Eastern Block countries were more open than others and the Czechs were always known for their engineering skills and that included new materials.

If you check the Wayback Machine/Internet Archive you can find Martin Reed stating clearly that the top end Mopta lenses were using Schneider lens cells, he may have said it here as well. My Vivitar VHE has made in Germany on the front cell if you unscrew it and is identical to a Componon-S and very different to the Rodagons (I have both).

Ian

 

[gorbas]

Ian, front entrance pupil of my Meogon S - 4/80mm #15x is 28.84mm, my Componon S 4/80mm #141894xx entrance pupil is 25mm. From front side, multi coating of Componon is more magenta, Meogon is more on blue side. On the back, MC are much more similar. They have totally different barrels and irises, its very hard to compare them without doing X-ray or taking them apart.
Yes, I did read Barry's chapter about enlarging lenses. Have no idea who Martin Reed is?
I'm certain that Meopta in late 80s had technology and expertise to produce Meogon's on their own.