4x5 recommendation

rubenmg · May 5, 2008

Hello,

I need a 4x5 camera for landscapes but i don´t know every possibilities. I have lenses for sinar, but i need less weigth than sinar what is your recommendation? Thank you very much and excuse me for my english,

Ruben

Dave Miller · May 5, 2008

Ruben, I have a Shen Hao which I can recommend, I chose it for its light weight. I find the weight of the kit comes from the accessories like darkslides and extra lens, and of course the tripod. May be this is where weight could be saved. Good luck in your search.
http://www.shen-hao.com/E45.html

Mick Fagan · May 5, 2008

Ruben, I too have a Shen Hao, it is an excellent camera and relatively cheap brand new.

There are others which are lighter and slightly smaller like Tachihara, Osaka (which I think is made by the Tachihara).

One feature if you wish to wing it and travelling very light, is to choose a camera that can be folded with at least one small sized lens attached. My Shen Hao travels with a Fuji 150 W lens put in backwards, this is really great when travelling very light.

Your Sinar lenses will work with any LF camera, so don't be in a hurry to get rid of them.

A search of the archives should get you many threads on LF cameras.

Mick.

Antje · May 5, 2008

Same thing here, I also have a Shen Hao and like it a lot. It's reasonably small and light and travels well folded.

Antje

David A. Goldfarb · May 5, 2008

Mick Fagan said:
Your Sinar lenses will work with any LF camera, so don't be in a hurry to get rid of them.

That is, if they have their own shutters, you can use them on any camera. If they are in DB mounts, they require a Sinar shutter, which could be adapted to other cameras, but in general, cameras that could do this wouldn't fit the description of "lightweight landscape camera."

There are many fine, lightweight cameras available for landscapes. What is your budget, are you looking to buy a new or a second-hand camera, and do prefer a monorail or a folding flatbed camera? How light is "light"? Are you backpacking for several days with food and a tent, requiring the lightest possible camera, or are you doing shorter trips, or staying close to the car?

jeroldharter · May 5, 2008

I think you want a field camera rather than a monorail view camera. Which field camera depends or your preferences. All involve some compromises. for example, the Shen-Hao is light, but I think the bellows draw is limited so you focal length is correspondingly limited. Some might have long bellows but they don't compact well you so might be limited on the wide focal length. Some are really cool (Technicardan) but unique and seem awkward to set up. Some people like the look of wood vs. metal. My choices would be:

Toyo 45 AII or AX - good all around, solid, lenses 90-300

Canham 45 DLC - less refined than Toyo but lighter, better bellows, greater movements, lenses 75-450

Arca 45 F-Line - excellent engineering. A svelte monorail field camera that is packable. no real limitation except somewhat heavier and the most expensive.

Ian Grant · May 5, 2008

You can add Wista to the list, will take a 65mm - 300mm lens. However for the price there's nothing that will get close to a Shen Hao.

Ian

John Kasaian · May 5, 2008

If you want to stick with monorails there are certainly light wieght options---the Gowland Pocket, Toho, and Arca Swiss come to mind. For wooden field cameras the lightest would probably be the Nagaoka but it has relatively short bellows, which brings up the point of which focal length lenses you'll be shooting landscapes with---make sure your new camera has the bellows to accomodate them.

Bruce Watson · May 5, 2008

The Shen Hao is too heavy for me. When I went light, I went really light. I've been using a Toho FC-45X which was the lightest camera I could find. I added an Arca Swiss style quick release plate and some levels to the back standard. It still comes in at less than 1.3 Kg.

I've been using my Toho for about six years now. Thousands of sheets of film. The Toho is surprisingly stiff and rigid. It's not without it's quirks, but they are easily mastered. I highly recommend it for backpackers and general use.

Look too at Kerry's lightweight lens articles. Very useful stuff.

rubenmg · May 5, 2008

Thank you all for your answers! Recently I "read" an article in Magnachrom about shen-hao cameras and I think taht is an important possibility. The aesthetic like me very much, is the type of camera that I want but i don´t knew the "veracity" of the article. I need a camera that I can transpor in a normal bag, and not detachable like sinar. I walk a lot of km whit the equipment and i can not allow too much weight and i need something manageable and "rapid" assembly. I am going to visit shem-hao website and too the others recomendations, thank you!

Ruben

Antje · May 10, 2008

rubenmg said:
Thank you all for your answers! Recently I "read" an article in Magnachrom about shen-hao cameras and I think taht is an important possibility. The aesthetic like me very much, is the type of camera that I want but i don´t knew the "veracity" of the article. I need a camera that I can transpor in a normal bag, and not detachable like sinar. I walk a lot of km whit the equipment and i can not allow too much weight and i need something manageable and "rapid" assembly. I am going to visit shem-hao website and too the others recomendations, thank you!

Ruben

Hi Ruben,

That is exactly what I do with my Shen-Hao. It fits perfectly in this camera bag, which sadly isn't made anymore, but might give you an idea on the size: Crumpler Tallee The rollfilm bag goes in the "darkroom", and film and accessories hide in the front compartment. If I didn't have to take a tripod, this would even be perfect for strolls in the city.

If I go hiking (=more than 5km), I usually take a proper backpack though and shove everything in there.

Antje

Don Dudenbostel · May 11, 2008

I also would suggest the Shen Hao. I used mine for about three years and loved it. In the past month I sold it and went with an Ebony because i found myself working with longer glass than the Shen hao would allow. One thing I miss about the Shen hao is the very light weight. It's on heck of a fine camera and an even more attractive camera considering the price and versatility.

Mark Fisher · May 11, 2008

I considered both the Shen Hao and the Tachihara. For me, the difference came down to weight and I got the Tachihara. If you ever want to use roll film, though, the Shen Hao is a better choice. I have not regretted my choice at all. I think it is a great camera for the price.

LKT · May 13, 2008

Ebony 4x5

What about the Ebony? A friend showed his to me. It looks very well made -- ebony and titanium.

On the web site, they have the model SW45 that weighs only 1.5Kg. But the movement seems limited.

Dead Link Removed

I am not a nature photographer, but I am using a Linhof Technikardan to shoot in the city, where some times I do need quite a lot of movement to get the foreground/background relationship correct.

But I am not getting any younger and a lighter camera will certainly help me to work faster and longer.

Any comments on the Ebony?

Ka Tai

2F/2F · May 13, 2008

A solid and cheap way is to get a Crown Graphic, forget about trying to adapt the lenses you have now, get a couple of older lenses on Graflex boards, and modify the camera for more shift. You'd probably spend $600 or less on a user-condition Crown kit and two lenses on the proper boards. A 90 and a 203, for instance. Add shipping, initial service, etc. They aren't the lightest camera out there, but they are plentiful, and CHEAP. You can also strip off all the excess (viewfinder, rangefinder, etc.) if you really feel it will help you carry it...probably won't, though.

This also brings up the thought of using a 2x3 Crown instead; with either holders or a rollfilm back. These are very light.

Used Toyo 45CFs are very reasonable too on the used market, although I find them horridly poorly built...but that is only based on fiddling with one in the store. I'm sure they can be made to work great in actual practice. People have done more with less; that's for sure.

Ian Grant · May 13, 2008

Crown Graphics are becoming very over valued, prices are getting ridiculously high. They can be useful cameras but they have a lot of limitations compared to all the other cameras recommended in this thread. I use one regularly, but only when I have to use a hand held LF camera where tripods are banned.

Ian

2F/2F · May 13, 2008

I was not aware they had gone up so much. When I was last shopping, they were in the $200 to $300 range as a kit with lens, holders, flash, case, etc. Less if beat up. Maybe $350 or $400 for one in a kit that was near mint condition.

I over payed for my Speed at $500 because 1. It was as close to dead mint as I have seen one. 2. It came in a kit with everything. Case, holders, changing bag, lens, etc. It included, in addition to the mounted Graflex three-cell flash, an extra bundle of three Heiland flashes, extra reflectors, a flash extension socket, a pile of synch cables, modeling bulbs, an extra case, and about 500 flashbulbs.

Anything you can do with rear movements you can also do with front shifts as an alternative. I agree that it is less than ideal, and more limited than the aforementioned cameras, which I why I suggested a user example and modifications that allow increased shifts. However, the savings in $$$ might be significant enough to make it a viable option to some.

Not arguing; just explaining my suggestion.

Ian Grant · May 13, 2008

Crown Graphic's

2F/2F said:
I was not aware they had gone up so much. . . . .

.. . . . . . . why I suggested a user example and modifications that allow increased shifts.
Not arguing; just explaining my suggestion.

Some sellers are attempting to get $500-$600 for just basic cameras, that is expensive, and some people are paying that.

I'm interested in what modifications you suggest for increased shift, I've tried reversing the front standard but that raises problems if you change from a 135/150mm lens to a 90mm.

Also any suggestions for front tilt in portrait mode ?

Ian

Don Wallace · May 13, 2008

Ian Grant said:
Crown Graphics are becoming very over valued, prices are getting ridiculously high. They can be useful cameras but they have a lot of limitations compared to all the other cameras recommended in this thread. I use one regularly, but only when I have to use a hand held LF camera where tripods are banned.

Ian

The major problem with a Crown is the lack of movements. You can reverse the front standard to get forward tilt for landscapes, but there are of course no back movements. However, I started LF with a Crown Graphic and when I got frustrated with the lack of front movements, I got a Super, which has LOTS of front tilt and swing. Also, for hand-held shots, nothing beats a Crown.

Nonetheless, I would not recommend anyone else take this route unless they have serious budget limitations because, eventually, you will need more movements than the Graphics can offer. There are enough full-featured field cameras out there at a reasonable price.

Ian Grant · May 13, 2008

Thanks Don, I've actually been writing about using a Crown Graphic in the landscape, and the constraints the camera place on your images.

There's an unfortunate trend by sellers to overstate the capabilities of Speed & Crown Graphics on the auction site, suggesting that they are the ideal starter 5x4 camera. I happen to own three but alt5hough I have plenty of LF experience I expected them to be a little more practical

Ian

Nick Zentena · May 13, 2008

LKT said:
What about the Ebony? A friend showed his to me. It looks very well made -- ebony and titanium.

I am not a nature photographer, but I am using a Linhof Technikardan to shoot in the city, where some times I do need quite a lot of movement to get the foreground/background relationship correct.

But I am not getting any younger and a lighter camera will certainly help me to work faster and longer.

Any comments on the Ebony?

Ka Tai

If you can afford an Ebony you can afford anything. I'm not sure it would be at the top of the list for "light" cameras.

Nick Zentena · May 13, 2008

If you don't need back movements. Or a graflok back then a B&J press camera is hard to beat. Sneered at because of it's family name. So the prices stay low. But plenty of front movements. Folds into a lunch box to -)

Ole · May 13, 2008

An Ebony would be nice, but so would a Gandolfi Variant Level 3 with much the same movements and less rainforest wood.

For lightweight WA cameras, take a look at Argentum.

If you need everything in one camera, there's only the secondhand market: Carbon Infinity.

Martin Aislabie · May 13, 2008

rubenmg said:
Hello,

I need a 4x5 camera for landscapes but i don´t know every possibilities. I have lenses for sinar, but i need less weigth than sinar what is your recommendation? Thank you very much and excuse me for my english,

Ruben

I have an Ebony 45S - and it is a versatile camera well suited to Landscape
I agree with Dave Miller, most of the weight of a Large Format System comes not from the camera itself but from all the other things you carry as well. The single largest and heaviest item is a tripod.
There are so many LF Cameras to choose from, it might be better to decide how much you are prepared to pay and work from there.
I found it useful when choosing to try out other peoples cameras and ask them for their experience with their camera.
Good luck
Martin

waynecrider · May 13, 2008

The Chamonix has become very popular with the LF crowd over at largeformatphotography.info/ A lot of the LF crowd here populate there as well.

4x5 recommendation

rubenmg

Dave Miller

Mick Fagan

Antje

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

jeroldharter

Ian Grant

John Kasaian

Bruce Watson

rubenmg

Antje

Don Dudenbostel

Mark Fisher

LKT

2F/2F

Ian Grant

2F/2F

Ian Grant

Don Wallace

Ian Grant

Nick Zentena

Nick Zentena

Ole

Moderator

Martin Aislabie

waynecrider

4x5 recommendation

Moderator

Moderator

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