4x5" Image area placement on film allingment

[Tom Kershaw]

Being new to 4x5", I've come across an issue with a few of my negatives that I've not experienced with 8x10" negatives. See:

My hunch is the film either wasn't loaded correctly or has moved out of position before exposure. Any comments?

Tom

Note: apologies for the spelling.

 

[BradS]

That looks like a pretty big angle. I'd guess that the film was not loaded properly. I am assuming that you're using modern film holders and that they are in good condition.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

That looks like a pretty big angle. I'd guess that the film was not loaded properly. I am assuming that you're using modern film holders and that they are in good condition.

Yes on the modern film holders. I find 4x5" is more challenging to load correctly than 8x10".

Tom

 

[BradS]

Yes on the modern film holders. I find 4x5" is more challenging to load correctly than 8x10".

Tom

I think 4x5 is harder than 8x10 because you have to be more accurate with the smaller film - especially in the angle of approach....

To convince yourself that it is a loading error you could take the negative with the misalignment, load it properly into one of your holders and wiggle it to see that there is no way that it could be that far off and still be properly between the rails. (does that make sense?)

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I think 4x5 is harder than 8x10 because you have to be more accurate with the smaller film - especially in the angle of approach....

To convince yourself that it is a loading error you could take the negative with the misalignment, load it properly into one of your holders and wiggle it to see that there is no way that it could be that far off and still be properly between the rails. (does that make sense?)

Do you youreself load the 4x5" film in a single motion once lined up correctly?

Tom

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

Yeah, looks like loading error to me as well. I just did this last week for the first time in years =( what are you gonna do. Luckily for me I made two exposures....

The suggestion to try recreating it with the developed sheet in a holder is a good one. Should answer things for certain. All the best. Shawn

 

[ic-racer]

I also find 8x10 easier to load than 4x5. I also agree with Shawn you image looks like mis-loaded film. (I have some like that too )

 

[BrianShaw]

For the image in the upper right of the proof sheet, one side (left) of the film was under the film-holding rail/track and the other (right) was above.

p.s. Brad's method of checking really works!

 

[DanielStone]

I've had this happen some times before. And it wasn't mis-loaded film. Some holders(I think the newer fidelity's IIRC), have some more "play room" for the film to move around than with the older holders, like the graflex ones w/ metal pull handles. those ones, the film don't budge.

but it might be misloaded film too, 8x10 is far easier for me to load in a dark room than 4x5, you can really use 2 hands

-Dan

 

[BradS]

Do you yourself load the 4x5" film in a single motion once lined up correctly?

Tom

Hmmm...loading 4x5 is all kinda automatic now....I guess I hold the sheet of 4x5 in my right hand, and feel for the edges of the film rails with thumb and index finger of my left. Holding the flap open with the ring finger of right hand , I introduce the edge of the film to the rails and slide it under the fingers part way. then, move right hand to trailing edge of film and push it in. The left hand is always feeling the edge of the film rails and as the film slides in, the left hand fingers are there - making sure that the film is under the rails. Before closing the flap, I kinda lift the trailing edge and, with left hand fingers still on the ends of the film rails, and verify again that the film is under the rails.


With 4x5 I think it is very easy to get one edge on top of the film rails without noticing it. I used to do this all the time...I've even had the damned sheet of film fall out in the camera when the dark slide is pulled!

 

[Stephanie Brim]

It's pretty automatic for me now, too, but I have some scans I can show of the exact same thing. What happened was that I got it loaded crooked in the holder.

I make sure to fold the light trap as far open as I can get it with my left hand, and then I slide the film carefully to the top of the film rails. I use both hands, then. I hold the light trap with my fingers and slide the film with my thumbs. I do this with 5x7, too.

I've also gone to checking that the film is behind the rails every time I load, too. I feel along them and if I don't feel the rails, I know that I've not gotten the film seated correctly. Takes longer to do, but I don't have wasted film that way.

 

[Curt]

And 2x3 is easier than 4x5 too.

 

[Martin Aislabie]

Being new to 4x5", I've come across an issue with a few of my negatives that I've not experienced with 8x10" negatives. See:

My hunch is the film either wasn't loaded correctly or has moved out of position before exposure. Any comments?

Tom

Note: apologies for the spelling.

Tom, look at the "shadows" left by the film guides on the film you have displayed here.

On the left hand side the film guide goes almost to the top of the Neg (this is what it is supposed to look like)

On the right side, the film guide stops further down the film.

What I think you have done, is get the left side of the film correctly under the guide but you have missed on the right hand side and the film has sat behind the Darkslide support shelf.

I had this happen to me quite a few times when I started 5x4 - I guess its all part of the learning experience

Now, when I load film, I keep my thumb and forefinger on the front edge of the film guides on either side of the holder - so I can feel the film slide under the guides

Most of the time the film slides in without a problem but occasionally it needs repeated attempts.

I used some sacrificial film to improve and verify my technique first in the light and later loaded in the dark followed by a visual inspection.

Hope this is of some help

Martin

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Yep, classic misload.

I still do this more often than I'd like (which, thankfully is very rarely. Personally, I prefer the film to pop out of the holder when I pull the slide, then at least I know of the problem right away and can make another exposure).

Fortunately, all is not lost if you stopped down a lot and you had enough depth of focus. Your negative may still be sharp enough to print, that is, if there is enough cropping room to align the image as you would like.

It's amazing how nicely the film can slip in "incorrectly" and still feel alright in the dark. I now check each sheet to make sure it is under the guides by lightly pulling up on each corner. And, every now and then I have to pull the sheet and reload it correctly!

Best and good luck,

Doremus Scudder
www.DoremusScudder.com

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Martin and Doremus,

I checked the film loading and indeed you're correct in that one side of the sheet had loaded correctly but the other was resting over the film insert guide.

Tom