4x5 Developing

klaus3428 · May 12, 2017

I'd like to do some pinhole photography using 4x5 sheet film.
Do you use special tanks? Have been reading about various options, trays, drum and dip tanks but don't really want to invest too much for the low amount of film I'll be shooting. And darkroom facilities not available ....

Oscar Carlsson · May 12, 2017

I use a MOD54 in my standard Paterson tanks. Works great and I've had no issues, not even with loading the film.

removed account4 · May 12, 2017

hi klaus3428
do you have a 2 reel processing tank for your 120 or 35mm work ?
( or one that is at least a little taller than 4" )
sometimes people process sheet film using the "taco method" which means
you bow the film inwards ( emulsion in, AH layer out ) and you put a small elastic band around it
to keep it curled/bowed ... then you put it in a reel tank and process it that way. i think some folks "stand" develope it that way
but you can also roll the tank and turn it into a mini-rotary processor. you need to soak the film and get the ah layer off and move the elastic
so you can remove the dye from that area too. and if you aren't careful and put the emulsion side OUT instead of IN you will get a line
up the film ( as i did the 1 and only time i did this 12 + years ago ) .. good luck / have fun !
john

locutus · May 12, 2017

Also use a MOD54, been very happy with the results. Easy to load, never had drag marks or other development defects.

Skiver101 · May 12, 2017

Hi Klaus,
This is my budget solution.
I adapted a Paterson tank by setting two small plastic rails taken from a 'flow-guard' plastic contraption that fits on the end of drainpipes.
The rails have a smooth surface to them and I fine-sandpapered the ends, they are flat on one side and bevelled on the other. I carefully epoxied them to the inside of the tank.
I can develop one or two negatives with varying degrees of agitation; without slippage.
This method is easy and has returned excellent results.
Two issues that may be considered minus points; I have to use 800ml of solution (but this is retained after development and used again - so no big deal).
Also, when cleaning the tank I have to be careful that the water I use is not too warm; or it can loosen the epoxy. Although this is easily repairedr...I would just re-attach the rail. It hasn't happened yet so, again...no big deal.

Here's some pics, it's easy - and cheap. And it works a treat.

JP

klaus3428 · May 12, 2017

Thanks for all your replies - very interesting - need to consider which way to go. Also, will need to hunt for some cheap sheets to play/practise with, but even long expired film is quite expensive and most quantities for B&W are 25 minimum. Colour is available in boxes of 10 but even more expensive.

locutus · May 12, 2017

Fomapan 400 is the cheapest film to experiment with, its grain but acceptable in 5x4.

jeffreyg · May 12, 2017

You might consider using Ilford direct positive paper. It's almost half the price of HP5 film and you can develop it in trays with chemistry you may already have. Just note that it will be much slower than film.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Alan9940 · May 12, 2017

Many good suggestions here for low cost developing of 4x5...another possibility is to build your own tubes. Get some Schedule 40 gray electrical conduit, an end cap, a male adapter, and a cap for the top. Relatively inexpensive (if you don't already have some equipment) and they work great!

Have fun!!

Peter Schrager · May 12, 2017

buy 4 trays and black out the bathroom window...simple

Rick A · May 12, 2017

I have a single neg Ciba drum when I have one or two 4x5's, one at a time using 2 oz. of chems. I tried two at a time once, sketchy. Most times I use my Unicolor 8x10 drums, 4-4x5's at a time in 8 oz of chems.

vdonovan · May 12, 2017

I really like the Dead Link Removed. Very easy to use, thrifty with developer.

John Wiegerink · May 12, 2017

+1 to the SP-445! Didn't like to shell out that much green stuff for plastic, but folks do the same for Jobo and that's all plastic too.

locutus · May 12, 2017

jeffreyg said:
You might consider using Ilford direct positive paper. It's almost half the price of HP5 film and you can develop it in trays with chemistry you may already have. Just note that it will be much slower than film.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

With its extremely narrow exposure latitude and weird spectral sensitivity curve this really isn't a easy forgiving beginner medium.

graciemansion · May 12, 2017

I had the same dilemma recently, and while I might try the taco method or buy the SP445 in the future, I just develop my 4x5 negatives in trays. I do it at night when no light gets into my bathroom, developing one sheet at time in 5x7 trays with 250ml of chemistry. It's a bit disorienting and monotonous doing it in the dark, but it works, and I didn't have to buy any new equipment.

grahamp · May 14, 2017

This solution worked for me for several years: http://grahamp.dotinthelandscape.org/develop.html
I don't think you can get black ABS in the UK in this size. The grey PVC might not be as light tight.

For first experiments, try the 'taco' method if you have suitable tank. Don't forget to put in the center core .

Alan9940 · May 14, 2017

grahamp said:
This solution worked for me for several years: http://grahamp.dotinthelandscape.org/develop.html
I don't think you can get black ABS in the UK in this size. The grey PVC might not be as light tight.

For first experiments, try the 'taco' method if you have suitable tank. Don't forget to put in the center core .

Those tubes are very similar to the ones I built using 2" Schedule 40 gray electrical conduit; can't remember the exact price, but 10 feet was something like $15 US. The end caps, male adapter top, and rubber o-ring came in around $6 US. I already had the cleaner, glue, sandpaper, etc. Each individual tube was about 4.5 inches yielding about 26 "tanks" from one 10 foot length of pipe. That's about 0.58 cents per "tank" + the $6 for the other pieces and we arrive at a grand total of $$6.58 per tank! And, unlike some other developing methods these tanks will allow you to experiment with other developing techniques such as minimal agitation and stand/semi-stand development.

If you make your own tanks, just make sure you don't use the white PVC material; it is definitely NOT light tight; black ABS and the stuff I've mentioned works fine.

Good luck!

nworth · May 14, 2017

I'm not acquainted with the Mod54 for the Patterson tank, but it may be the way to go, depending on price. Besseler and Ciba drums are often available at low cost. They originally had a divider that let you develop 4X5 or 5X7 film or paper. If you can find one that still has the divider, they work well. But for very low volume work, trays are probably the easiest and cheapest. Choose a developer that will give you a short developing time - sloshing a sheet of film in the developer in the dark gets tedious fast. If you can find a developer that gives you a time that is about the same as your fixing time, life becomes much easier, since you can just hit the timer button again when you start fixing. Remember that tray development, with continuous agitation, goes faster than tank development. Times are generally about 75 to 80 percent of the tank times. The Giant Developing Chart gives some examples.

Pioneer · May 15, 2017

I use the Jobo 2509 now and consider it very worthwhile. But I shoot and develop quite a bit of 4x5.

If I were using only a few sheets in a pinhole then I would just stay with trays. I used them for quite awhile, swishing them around in my bathtub, and got just as nice a negative as I do now with my Jobo.

The SP 445 is also a great option, as are BTZS tubes, but trays are still a lot cheaper in the long run and pretty easy to use.

Not a big learning curve involved and the results are very nice.

The really nice thing about trays is you can contact print your negatives and use the trays to develop your print as well. Or use direct positive paper in your pinhole and develop them in your trays. Trays are very versatile.

Logan Becker · May 21, 2017

Skiver101 said:
...
Also, when cleaning the tank I have to be careful that the water I use is not too warm; or it can loosen the epoxy...

I'm interested to know what epoxy you used for your setup. If I'm bonding plastics I use 3M's (off-white) DP 420, which has a reasonably high resistance to heat and submergence in water, which may be beneficial for use in a developing tank. I know that some cured epoxies don't do well in contact with oxidizing materials, so before I decide to try your idea out, I may test to see the rate of bond degradation when in prolonged contact with developer.

Mike Bates · May 21, 2017

I've tried various tanks and trays. Once I got my SP-445 with the 2nd generation film holders, I never looked back. It loads easily and I get great results with only 475ml developer for four sheets.

klaus3428 · May 22, 2017

Thanks for all recent replies - however, on Sunday I attended the Photographica fair in London and found a Yankee square tank and at under £30 I couldn't resist... I have seen quite a few negative comments, also some positive ones. The only drawback I can see is that it needs 1.6 litres of liquid which is a bit over the top for only a few sheets a time. Either need a more economical approach (Rodinal?) or keep the developer for some more films (I use Ilfosol3 but can be diluted 1+14).

klaus3428 · May 22, 2017

klaus3428 said:
Thanks for all your replies - very interesting - need to consider which way to go. Also, will need to hunt for some cheap sheets to play/practise with, but even long expired film is quite expensive and most quantities for B&W are 25 minimum. Colour is available in boxes of 10 but even more expensive.

Another lucky purchase: one opened box each of 5x4 FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus. The seller didn't know how many were taken out of the box but judging by the weight one is almost full and one is probably 2/3rds full. So potentially 30-35 sheets at a very reasonable price (half of retail price for one box). So almost set up. Just need some time to take the pinhole out....

nosmok · May 23, 2017

I have TERRIBLE luck with the Yankee tank and agitation: it slops all over so best to do it in the sink or a basin, inversion is not possible, and the films are prone to sticking together (though this is worst with thinner "pack film" which I have a lot of). However, I did find one good trick with it: you can cut down the size of the tank with closed-cell foam (the at-least-one-side-slick, rigid-but-flexible packing foam) if you aren't doing 12 or 16 sheets at once. If you are using very chemically strong developers you might try dipping a bit of the foam in the soup just to see that it doesn't react with it-- I'm a Caffenol guy so I don't have that worry, and my Eco-Pro Neutral fixer is also foam friendly. I think I've batted about .500 using my Yankee tank, hope you do better. This foam trick has been a bright spot for me and my Yankee.

klaus3428 · May 23, 2017

Thanks nosmok - definitely something to try, I don't expect to do more than a few sheets at a time so cutting the volume roughly in half would be ideal. I see that most electronic gear comes with the rigid packing so I'll hunt for that. The type of plastic is also offered in sheets for automotive applications, but free is better of course

4x5 Developing

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