4X5 Delta 100 souped in staining developer vs non-staining developer?

[John Wiegerink]

Well, we just had a thread about Delta 100 vs Max 100 so this is a little followup. I usually shoot HP5+ in 4X5, but decided to supplement the HP5+ with a 100 speed film for certain occasions. Well, Delta 100 won me out and I just order some in 4X5. I was just curious to hear what folks thought in regard to staining vs non-staining developer for Delta 100. My two main developers are XT-3R and Pyrocat-HDC. I'll be testing both when my film gets here and form my own opinion, but for now would like to hear from other folks as to what they think.

 

[retina_restoration]

Well, we just had a thread about Delta 100 vs Max 100 so this is a little followup. I usually shoot HP5+ in 4X5, but decided to supplement the HP5+ with a 100 speed film for certain occasions. Well, Delta 100 won me out and I just order some in 4X5. I was just curious to hear what folks thought in regard to staining vs non-staining developer for Delta 100. My two main developers are XT-3R and Pyrocat-HDC. I'll be testing both when my film gets here and form my own opinion, but for now would like to hear from other folks as to what they think.

John,
My two default developers for Delta 100 are PMK and Pyrocat HD, if that tells you anything. Delta responds beautifully to the various "Pyro" developers.
Examples: here, here, and here.

But Delta 100 also works extremely well in Thornton 2-Bath developer. Examples here, here, and here.
Fact is, John - there are no bad developer choices for Delta 100. Just choose what you like to work with and test, test, test to find your happy place.

I think you're going to find that Delta 100 gives you much more "sparkle" in the upper values, especially compared to HP5+, which I find to be lacking in that regard. (HP5+ is great for portraits, IMO, but not so much for landscape type work, where high value separation is much more important.)

 

[Ian Grant]

I've been using Delta 100 5x4 & 120 in Pyrocat HD since 2007, the negatives are so easy to print, and they also scan well. I also use HP5 for handheld 5x4 and it's equally as good. I am mainly shooting landscapes and have no issues with highlight vaues.

Ian

 

[GregY]

John I won't be of much help, I've been a steady user of staining developers since i first tried them. The last time I used Xtol was at least 20 yrs ago with some TMax 3200. Every film of every subject since then has been processed in PMK ...and then with Pyrocat HD when it became available

 

[John Wiegerink]

Looks like there is a lot in favor of Delta 100 in Pyro so far. retina_restoration I'm a mid-tones kind of guy and love how your tree on the bank rendered the trees and bare roots. Of course those BT 2-bath shots look very nice also. I have been using BT 2-bath while learning/experimenting with Adox HR-50, and it does nicely with that also.

 

[Milpool]

Since Delta 100 is pretty fine grained to begin with, unless you're making very large prints from 4x5 negatives you can more or less ignore the image structure differences between pyrocat and XTOL (which will be finer grained).

XTOL will tend to produce less highlight contrast than general purpose PQ/P-cat. For this reason (and the staining action of pyrocat) it would probably be easier to generate a higher density range with pyrocat, which can be useful for alt purposes, for example.

 

[Alan9940]

I agree with the above that there is probably no bad developer for Delta 100, but my two absolute favorites for this film are Pyrocat-HD and Clayton F-76+. IMO, there is something magical about the Delta 100 / F-76+ combo.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I shot a lot of D100 in 4x5 for a few years, in the late 90's. Developed in XTol 1+1, or Pyrocat-HD. EI 80. Love it in either developer. I've got a wack of it in 120, that I need to get through... I've been toying with the ideal of picking up a box of 4x5 again... I'll probably develop it in Pyrocat-HDC.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I shot a lot of D100 in 4x5 for a few years, in the late 90's. Developed in XTol 1+1, or Pyrocat-HD. EI 80. Love it in either developer. I've got a wack of it in 120, that I need to get through... I've been toying with the ideal of picking up a box of 4x5 again... I'll probably develop it in Pyrocat-HDC.

What I have found is that Alan9940 is right, Delta 100 goes nicely with many developers. In 120 I switch between XT-3R (Xtol-R) and Pyrocat-HDC. I seem to like Xt-3R for low contrast scenes like a forest when it's foggy and Pyrocat-HDC for higher contrast scenes. I'll use one or the other if I have something that is halfway important in one type scene or the other. That said, I could happily use either one for a number of films. Veturing into 4X5 Delta 100 might be a little different? This thread was just out of curiosity as to what other people thought.

 

[GregY]

What I have found is that Alan9940 is right, Delta 100 goes nicely with many developers. In 120 I switch between XT-3R (Xtol-R) and Pyrocat-HDC. I seem to like Xt-3R for low contrast scenes like a forest when it's foggy and Pyrocat-HDC for higher contrast scenes. I'll use one or the other if I have something that is halfway important in one type scene or the other. That said, I could happily use either one for a number of films. Veturing into 4X5 Delta 100 might be a little different? This thread was just out of curiosity as to what other people thought.

John I can't imagine any shortcomings with Delta 100 in 4x5....

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I did a side by side comparison between TMX and D100 (4x5), back in the late 90's. XTol 1+1. D100 amazed me in that it had slightly better acutance. Indistinguishable, tonally. After that, the box of TMX sat on the shelf, unused. Only within the last few years did I crack it open (expired 2000) and shoot some of it. Considering the bad storage it received, it still came out remarkably well! All this talk about D100 has got me looking for some now. Thanks a bunch, guys!

 

[John Wiegerink]

I did a side by side comparison between TMX and D100 (4x5), back in the late 90's. XTol 1+1. D100 amazed me in that it had slightly better acutance. Indistinguishable, tonally. After that, the box of TMX sat on the shelf, unused. Only within the last few years did I crack it open (expired 2000) and shoot some of it. Considering the bad storage it received, it still came out remarkably well! All this talk about D100 has got me looking for some now. Thanks a bunch, guys!

Andy,
Grab a donut and start digging through your stash of film. I'm going to "Cops and Donuts" tomorrow and will be thinking of you. I just got a notice from FedEx that my Delta 100 and FX-39II is on the way. Should be here in two days or so. Yippie!

 

[Alan9940]

All this talk about D100 has got me looking for some now. Thanks a bunch, guys!

Best look for a pile-o-money, too! Makes me all warm and fuzzy that I bought a 100-sheet box years ago.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Best look for a pile-o-money, too! Makes me all warm and fuzzy that I bought a 100-sheet box years ago.

Yes, the price of sheet film is a tad bit high, but I've had much more expensive habits that I didn't enjoy as much as photography.. Still, I wish I had bought more good 4X5 B&W film when it was cheaper. I have a good stash of 8X10 B&W and color, but not 4X5.

 

[GregY]

Best look for a pile-o-money, too! Makes me all warm and fuzzy that I bought a 100-sheet box years ago.

The last box of Ilford Delta /100 sheet was 5x7" and a lot less than the $307 USD current price

 

[John Wiegerink]

The last box of Ilford Delta /100 sheet was 5x7" and a lot less than the $307 USD current price

Whoa, that's a lot of donuts for sure. I shed a small tear when I had to pay $72.79 for a 25 sheet box of 4X5.

 

[Alan9940]

Whoa, that's a lot of donuts for sure. I shed a small tear when I had to pay $72.79 for a 25 sheet box of 4X5.

And to think I used to buy 50 sheet boxes of 8x10 Tri-X in the early 80's for $50 a box! Sigh...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Looks like a box of 4x5 D100 will set me back $99 of my hard earned loonies...plus GST/PST. I remember when this stuff about 40 loonies! 8x10 forget it! I'd have to give up doughnuts for a couple of years first. My wife is still giving me the fish eye for the 8x10 Bergger Panchro 400 I purchased a few months ago

 

[retina_restoration]

8x10 Bergger Panchro 400 I purchased a few months ago

Andy, did you purchase Pancro 400 that was short dated, or is the expiration date still a couple years out? My impression is that all of the 8x10 inventory that suddenly appeared in the past 9 months is short dated, with most expiring in June 2025. I suspect all of the inventory available right now is from old stock the manufacturer dug out of the archives.
I would have bought a box, but given the fact that it's no longer significantly less $$$ than comparable products from other manufacturers, and it's hitting its "best before" date within weeks, I declined to buy.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Andy, did you purchase Pancro 400 that was short dated, or is the expiration date still a couple years out? My impression is that all of the 8x10 inventory that suddenly appeared in the past 9 months is short dated, with most expiring in June 2025. I suspect all of the inventory available right now is from old stock the manufacturer dug out of the archives.
I would have bought a box, but given the fact that it's no longer significantly less $$$ than comparable products from other manufacturers, and it's hitting its "best before" date within weeks, I declined to buy.

Short dated. June 2025. I was a little irked when I realised that. I have yet to crack it open...

 

[retina_restoration]

Short dated. June 2025. I was a little irked when I realised that. I have yet to crack it open...

I'd be more than a little irked. I was about to buy, but I asked about the expiration date first, and when I found that it was on the edge of expiration, I declined. I'll be interested to see how yours performs. I know that the 120 roll version of Pancro 400 does NOT do well once its expiration date nears - not sure about the sheet film.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

But Delta 100 also works extremely well in Thornton 2-Bath developer. Examples here, here, and here.

These are gorgeous. I see that you rated one at 80 and another at 50. Did you note a big difference between the two ?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

T2B is an excellent developer.

 

[DREW WILEY]

D100 has a somewhat upswept curve, which can favor the highlights if you don't overdo the exposure, or develop it too long. But we often do exactly that in order to expand the shadows and midtones. That's where the pyro stain comes into the game to help us, by better reining in and controlling the highlight reproduction, among other things. D100 won't take a deep stain, but enough. I prefer PMK.

To help with the shadows, I typically expose it at 50.

 

[retina_restoration]

These are gorgeous. I see that you rated one at 80 and another at 50. Did you note a big difference between the two ?

Thanks. There was very little difference between them - maybe a slight difference in overall density.